Rem 260 Berger 130 VLD hunting - is this normal?

[budlight]

Higher speed makes for massive hydraulic shock. A low speed heavy bullet with high SD has penetration without the shock value. I pounded a big muley with a 3200 fps 140 SPBT and it was dead on the spot with a classic broad side blow through. You couldn't even see an entry wound and the exit might have been a quarter size. When I opened it up to field dress it. Blood just poured out from the chest area and the lungs were gone. The shock was so great that the lungs were vaporized. The deer stood there for seconds and then slumped and then fell over.

 

[budlight]

It's been my experience that high SD bullets especially at close range don't impart any hydro shock and all you end up with is a pass through because of over penetration. The animal has the ability to run away like bow hunting. They just bleed out.

I became a believer in Barnes X bullets that impart so much energy on sub 400 lbs animals.

I've had perfect heart lung shot pass throughs and had them run using heavy for the caliber bullets. Where the lighter for the caliber bullets caused DRT

 

[WildRose]

It's been my experience that high SD bullets especially at close range don't impart any hydro shock and all you end up with is a pass through because of over penetration. The animal has the ability to run away like bow hunting. They just bleed out.

I became a believer in Barnes X bullets that impart so much energy on sub 400 lbs animals.

I've had perfect heart lung shot pass throughs and had them run using heavy for the caliber bullets. Where the lighter for the caliber bullets caused DRT

I'd certainly argue that.

I shot about a 280lbs sow tonight at no more than 40yds.

Bullet was 130gr Hornady Interbond.

Impact velocity around 3375fps.

Shot was placed mid rib just above and behind the elbow.

She was stone dead before she ever hit the ground without so much as wiggling her tail or taking another breath.

350lbs sow standing behind her about thirty yards further out stone dead as well as the bullet passed through the first sow and buried up in the spine of the 2nd Sow's neck.

Only hydrostatic shock could account for the absolute instantaneous disconnect on the first sow.

Opened her up and everything in her chest had been turned into red jello as well confirming it. Biggest piece of either heart or lung I could find was maybe the size of a golfball.

With the complete pass through and kill of the 2nd pig that kind of damage cannot be explained by a bullet breaking up.

 

[dennisinaz]

I have seen more than 100 head of big game fall to the 180 Berger VLD alone. Many, many of these kills were 'bang-flops' even without hitting the spine. You have to have a pretty high impact velocity to get it. Research done on feral goats years ago showed that the status of the heart at impact was the biggest factor in instant death. This was based on complete autopsies including the brain. The researchers concluded that the heart had to be full of blood in a certain chamber (left ventricle??) and this caused a tsunami of blood to impact the brain causing instant death.

I don't think you can have a bang-flop without impacting the central nervous system; either hit the brain or the spine, in this case the brain is hit with a surge of blood causing instant hemorrhage .

 

[WildRose]

I have seen more than 100 head of big game fall to the 180 Berger VLD alone. Many, many of these kills were 'bang-flops' even without hitting the spine. You have to have a pretty high impact velocity to get it. Research done on feral goats years ago showed that the status of the heart at impact was the biggest factor in instant death. This was based on complete autopsies including the brain. The researchers concluded that the heart had to be full of blood in a certain chamber (left ventricle??) and this caused a tsunami of blood to impact the brain causing instant death.

I don't think you can have a bang-flop without impacting the central nervous system; either hit the brain or the spine, in this case the brain is hit with a surge of blood causing instant hemorrhage .

That is correct but the only guaranteed way to get that instant death is to interrupt the CNS. Anything else is a crap shoot.

 

[BEEMAN]

I'm sure the OP has got his answer since 2014. But I'll add that my results sound more explosive with the 130 Berger's. I shoot them at 2950 FPS out of a 6.5x47. I've only shot Texas whitetail from 100 to 300 yds. Almost all drop right there with shots just behind the shoulder. There is typically quite a bit of blood shot meat. My other x47 shoots 130 Accubond and the results are very similar to the Berger as far as damage and blood shot. Really wasn't expecting that from the accubond.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I think it's pretty normal for deer to run 50-150+ yards after having their heart/lungs destroyed. If you want more bang/flops, you'll need bigger heavier bullets and more 'energy'.

If you're getting half dollar sized exits, and severely damaged organs, there's nothing wrong with the bullet.

disagree. My wife gets bang flops often with a 243 and I have had a deer run 125 yards with a 300 WSM. It's all about where the deer is shot. Most bang flops happen either due to head shot, neck shot, spine shot or high shoulder shot which shocks the spine.

 

[budlight]

I'm a Texas pig hunter. Generally stands with feeders. I have generally used my 270 AI. 150 gr nosler or speer spbt. generally sub 250 lbs because they are less work to load up and get home. Total pass through every time and I've seen chunks of lung on the ground and follow a blood trail to find them. The exit hole is generally about a American quarter to a 50 cent size hole if you you hit a rib on the exit side. Then I switched to a specialty bulk bullet 120 gr hpbt and I got a bunch of DRT with the exit hole up close is nasty and way out there the inside cavity is jello.

I also tested Barnes X bullets on pigs and mule deer with great success. I also loaded up barnes X in 405 and 450 gr for a friends African hunts. Plains game and lion .458 win mag 26 inch barrel.

 

[mmacfive]

It's been my experience that high SD bullets especially at close range don't impart any hydro shock and all you end up with is a pass through because of over penetration. The animal has the ability to run away like bow hunting. They just bleed out.

I became a believer in Barnes X bullets that impart so much energy on sub 400 lbs animals.

I've had perfect heart lung shot pass throughs and had them run using heavy for the caliber bullets. Where the lighter for the caliber bullets caused DRT

I believe that high SD bullets would impart more hydro static shock at close range where there have higher velocities?

 

[budlight]

It really comes down to bullet construction. Even a human can keep moving after an AP or FMJ small diameter bullet passes through them. because it didn't hydro them.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Hi,
I have my rem 260 shooting 130 grain Berger VLD hunting bullets out of my Remington long barrel custom rig at 2780 fps.

I shot 2 deer the past weekend, a good size 8 point with a shot off bum front leg at 215 yards.
I hit him broad side and took out both lungs and the top of the heart. The deer ran straight off into the woods and piled up 50 yards from the shot.
When he was dressed I saw the entry hole about the size of a quarter on the rib and the exit hole about the size of half dollar. Part of the lungs and top part of the heart was gone.

I shot the big doe at 210 broadside in a field, deer ran 150 yards across a hay field and piled up in the field. Again, quarter entry hole, half dollar exit hole, lungs and top of the heart where damaged and quite a mess.

I was expecting even more damage internally, a bigger exit hole, if not any at all and definitely not anything running 150 yards. I know it was pure adrenaline but still.

Do these bullets need to be pushed faster to blow up more, is this expected results?
My Strelok ballistics chart says these bullets were going about 2400 at point of entry.

thoughts?
thanks Kevin

I had the exact same results recently shooting a Berger 140 gr. VLD-H out of my 6.5 PRC. MV was 3140 fps. The first buck was at 300 yds and the second was at 335 yds. Both deer were shot behind the shoulder through the heart lung area. Both deer ran about 100 yds. and left little to no blood trail. The entrance holes were bullet diameter and the exits were about 1 inch. I was expecting both deer to fall at or near the point of impact.
I've re-sighted the rifle with Hornady 147 gr. ELD-M loads. We'll see what they do.

 

[alf]

This year's buck, 140 VLD's at 3100, about 325 yard yard shot, he ran maybe 75 yards....

Exit:

Last years buck, 130 VLD's at 2820, 225 yard shot, ran maybe 75 yards:

Exit:

Couple years ago, 130 VLD's at 3150, 325 yard hard quartering away shot, down & out before I could get back in the scope.

Aftermath.....heart, lungs, and liver:

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Alf
What kind of blood trail did you get with the first buck, and what caliber are you shooting

 

[alf]

Alf
What kind of blood trail did you get with the first buck, and what caliber are you shooting

Sorry, it was a 6.5 PRC on the 1st, 6.5x47 on the 2nd, 6.5-284 on the third.

On the 1st, the buck was hightailing it across a hay field, but stopped once long enough to get a shot. I heard the bullet hit. It was late afternoon, and I just went to where he went into the woods, and found him piled up about 15 yards in. I didn't backtrack to look for blood.

The 2nd buck was shot in a hay field as well, but didn't quite make it to the wood line, I saw him drop.