Recovered Barnes bullet

[Rich Coyle]

When I did research on annealing one author suggested quenching help with the softening of the case neck and shoulder.

 

[WildRose]

I don't mind providing some basic facts but I have no desire to do any research for some evidence that will convince you, thats too much like work. Do your own research, you will learn things you wouldn't learn if I did it for you.

Besides if you are spending time educating yourself, you will have less time to tell people that heating and quenching their brass is a good way to harden their primer pockets.

You make the claim it's up to you to support it.

 

[WildRose]

When I did research on annealing one author suggested quenching help with the softening of the case neck and shoulder.

I don't know who you're reading but it flies in the face of everything known. Annealing softens the brass, not quenching.

 

[Edd]

I don't know who you're reading but it flies in the face of everything known. Annealing softens the brass, not quenching.

You are supposed to be educating yourself so you don't say stuff like this.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

You make the claim it's up to you to support it.

That's a two way argument. You've made plenty of claims. It's up to you to support it.

 

[WildRose]

That's a two way argument. You've made plenty of claims. It's up to you to support it.

I did with videos and articles.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I did with videos and articles.

That was just ballistics gel. Your conclusions are correct for ballistics gel.

That's not flesh and bone. We don't hunt ballistics gel.

Can you support you conclusion referencing reviewed data on flesh and bone rather than ballistics gel?

 

[Rich Coyle]

Can you support you conclusion referencing reviewed data on flesh and bone rather than ballistics gel?

I worked with an engineer who could not get past theory. We would work on something in the office and then try to implement it. I would adjust it to work and he could get upset that I changed the concept because that's not what we thought about.

 

[WildRose]

That was just ballistics gel. Your conclusions are correct for ballistics gel.

That's not flesh and bone. We don't hunt ballistics gel.

Can you support you conclusion referencing reviewed data on flesh and bone rather than ballistics gel?

Ballistic gel is specifically formulated to mimic as closely as possible living tissue.

If you want to study shockwaves and how they affect the body that's the best medium.

When it comes to breaking bones the best evidence comes directly from observation of game animals that are shot, particularly large, dangerous game.

No one is using a flat/square fronted bullet for DG, they are round nosed or NRFP's specifically designed for maximum penetration with little or no expansion.

As for real world human examples and the affects of the hydraulic pressures generated by high velocity impacts, here's a short article.

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Hydrostatic shock&item_type=topic

 

[Rich Coyle]

Ballistic gel is specifically formulated to mimic as closely as possible living tissue.

If you want to study shockwaves and how they affect the body that's the best medium.

When it comes to breaking bones the best evidence comes directly from observation of game animals that are shot, particularly large, dangerous game.

No one is using a flat/square fronted bullet for DG, they are round nosed or NRFP's specifically designed for maximum penetration with little or no expansion.

As for real world human examples and the affects of the hydraulic pressures generated by high velocity impacts, here's a short article.

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Hydrostatic shock&item_type=topic

You are showing ignorance of modern dangerous game bullets.

 

[Varminator 911]

My understanding is that flat nose solids for dangerous game penetrate deeper, straighter, and likely cause more tissue damage than round nose. The flat portion should be about 2/3 the caliper diameter. If the full caliper is flat on a solid the bullet can become unstable and veer off course.

There are several bullet makers including Woodleigh, Nosler, Hornady, Cutting Edge, and North Fork offering flat nose solids for dangerous game. The Nosler and Hornady bullets are kind of a hybrid between flat and round likely for feeding concerns.

There is a 303 page thread on the subject of dangerous game bullet design and performance here:
Terminal Bullet Performance - Topic

I believe North Fork has converted entirely from round nose to flat point solids and cup point for dangerous game. The bullet shape can be seen here: Bullets

 

[Deleted member 46119]

...here's a short article.

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Hydrostatic shock&item_type=topic

Blah blah.

I've known about hydrostatic shock since I was 12. I'm not kidding, odd childhood.

I can simulate hydro-static shock and cavitation in my pool. Nothing new there. Water and ballistics gel are not flesh and bone. Simulates are just that, simulates. Just because they are "designed" to be close does not mean that for the nuance of what we are discussing it is valid.

This has gone on so long as an argument by a purveyor or supporter of a certain manufacturer vs. everyone else that I no longer understand the point.

 

[WildRose]

You are showing ignorance of modern dangerous game bullets.

No, I've actually shot them at dangerous game and spent a whole lot of time talking to African outfitters, PH's, and dangerous game hunters rather than reading about it on forums.

 

[WildRose]

Blah blah.

I've known about hydrostatic shock since I was 12. I'm not kidding, odd childhood.

I can simulate hydro-static shock and cavitation in my pool. Nothing new there. Water and ballistics gel are not flesh and bone. Simulates are just that, simulates. Just because they are "designed" to be close does not mean that for the nuance of what we are discussing it is valid.

This has gone on so long as an argument by a purveyor or supporter of a certain manufacturer vs. everyone else that I no longer understand the point.

So you just poo poo any and all information without bothering to read it.

That wasn't about gel tests, that article was about actual wounds on human beings.

I'm not a purveyor of anyone's bullets. I use and recommend Nosler, Hornady, and Perigrine bullets to a lesser degree.