Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonCeret

[bigbuck]

Re: Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonC

Deleted

 

[midnightmalloy]

Re: Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonC

ok so what die are you using to "bump the shoulder" back .003" ? is it a FL die or something different? Also just cause im interested has anyone measured the difference it makes doing all these processeses and then doing it the old easy way of just resizing and loading? when using top components like berger, nosler brass, norma etc whats the actual accuracy gain from all this extra work. just a conversation and i want to try in the future a little test of this.

 

[garfield]

Re: Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonC

great!
thank you

with 5 chapters?!
again, great

can you help me with chronograph?

I'm a newbie
and I have problem

yes, this
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/sd-es-load-advice-42379/

but, the readme first paper from chrony

accurary 99.5%... better 1 part in 200= +/- 10 FPS of 2000FPS....0.5% STD ..

and the article

http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/EnglemanChronographStatistics.pdf

PDF, 8 pages

with ES and STD 1 (or 2?) digit...difficult for me with 99.5%

and use 2 chrony (or just one oehler or CED??) for
«
chronograph proof channel tandem
»

thank you

 

[LR-Shooter]

Re: Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonC

Tres, what is the process for setting up a full length resizing die in order to bump the shoulder back .001"? I have the calipers, bump gage, and the proper inserts. Please provide pictures.

Regards,
Mannygun)

 

[Shootin4fun]

Re: Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonC

Tres- Good arcticle, thanks!

I've been hand loading for the usual reasons, but I don't often shoot past 400 yards. If I'm lucky, I shoot 1" groups at 300 yards.

But now I see I have been deviating from your stated proceedure.

1) I full case resize. Does this degrade accuracy, or just shorten case life due to full case expansion / compression?

2) I only clean primer pockets with a pocket brush. I don't use the tool to ream them out like that. It the difference measurable?

3) Annealing! I have never done this and it seems like a tedious and tricky process. How much does neck tension typically vary in non-annealed cases??

Has anyone reloaded the same exact loads with cases that have and have not been annealed to determine how much of a difference it makes?

I always figured that differences in the tightness of fit of the bullet from round to round did not present enough friction difference compared to the tremendous pressure building up to move the bullet to make a difference in vel or POI. I can understand that crimping vs. not crimping could change the amount of pressure to get the bullet moving because there you are really increasing the "hold" quite a bit.

Good discussion and thanks for the very informative article!!!

 

[Shootin4fun]

Re: Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonC

ok so what die are you using to "bump the shoulder" back .003" ? is it a FL die or something different? Also just cause im interested has anyone measured the difference it makes doing all these processeses and then doing it the old easy way of just resizing and loading? when using top components like berger, nosler brass, norma etc whats the actual accuracy gain from all this extra work. just a conversation and i want to try in the future a little test of this.

Yes, data on differences with / without annealing, and with / without case weighing please...anyonone?

I've weighed and grouped, but don't have a large enough volume of cases from the same lot # to get 50 rounds of 1 weight (+/- 1 grain), and 50 rounds of another weight, so I just line them up lightest to heaviest in my cartridge case, load em and shoot em in order! I figure heaviest should be faster cuz less capacity = higher pressure faster. I have not been able to determine conclusively that the last 5 of 20 has a different POI than the first 5 but I'm really going to try the next time around.

Obviously, I'm not in a 1K competition, but I do like to shoot as tight groups as I can. There is a point of diminishing returns in all of this!

 

[supercrossbmx69]

Re: Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep By Tres MonC

Tres, where can I find one of those gauges to find out where to trim my cases? And from my understanding, the headspace gauges are cartridge specific, so how could I get a headspace gauge for my wildcat?

 

[270 Sender0]

Tres,

Great info, and look forward to more.

 

[bobk13]

great article brought back things I hadn't thought about since I returned to long range hunting. Thanks for the info

 

[strap14]

This is a thread for discussion of the article, Precision Hand Loading For Long Range-Chapter One: Brass Sort & Prep, By Tres MonCeret. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.

I got a bit lost on the part about making a gauge cutting it short by .050" and then putting
your plug gauge into the case. Isn't the old machined case your gauge? or are you referring to a different "plug gauge"?



QUOTE
Take a scrap case and trim it WAY back with your case trimmer, say .050" SHORTER than book spec.
3. Seat your plug gauge into the case - long.
4. Ease this round into your weapon and fully close and lock the bolt.
5. Remove the case gently without bumping the gauge. It has hit the end of the chamber and be pushed back into the case by the action of locking the bolt.

 

[TracySes23]

I got a bit lost on the part about making a gauge cutting it short by .050" and then putting
your plug gauge into the case. Isn't the old machined case your gauge? or are you referring to a different "plug gauge"?



QUOTE
Take a scrap case and trim it WAY back with your case trimmer, say .050" SHORTER than book spec.
3. Seat your plug gauge into the case - long.
4. Ease this round into your weapon and fully close and lock the bolt.
5. Remove the case gently without bumping the gauge. It has hit the end of the chamber and be pushed back into the case by the action of locking the bolt.

The old machined case is part of the gauge. He fabricated an insert that's a slight interference fit in the shortened case & the same diameter on the larger end as the case neck diameter. As it's slowly chambered with the bolt closed, the insert will stop sliding in. after extracting his fabricated gauge, he measures the overall length. This measurement will tell him exactly how long his chamber it. That measurement is exact. Now he knows what the maximum trim length is for the brass that's used in a particular rifle.
Now all he has to do is trim only a few thousands less than max. This also allows for the neck of his case to be slightly longer, which he considerers an advantage to insure better bullet to case alignment, which in turn makes it possible to get better concentricity between the case & bullet.
At least this is the way I understand it.

 

[Rem700addict]

I really enjoyed this article and it had a great deal of info for a newbie such as myself. However i'm a little confused as to the term "annealing" for rifle brass. I've taken a class in metallurgy and wonder why it we call it case annealing, as you stated the purpose of annealing is to not harden the neck area however it is also stated that after you finish heating the case you drop it in water. Is that not actually "hardening"? I'm by no means debating, just curious, as I thought annealing would be a slow cool down of the area heated, thus leading to a softer composition of the metal. Thanks again for the great read.

 

[TracySes23]

I really enjoyed this article and it had a great deal of info for a newbie such as myself. However i'm a little confused as to the term "annealing" for rifle brass. I've taken a class in metallurgy and wonder why it we call it case annealing, as you stated the purpose of annealing is to not harden the neck area however it is also stated that after you finish heating the case you drop it in water. Is that not actually "hardening"? I'm by no means debating, just curious, as I thought annealing would be a slow cool down of the area heated, thus leading to a softer composition of the metal. Thanks again for the great read.

Copper & aluminum alloys are only a couple of alloys that are annealed this way. They get hardened by working the metal, either by bending, flexing etc.
The reason for dropping it into water is to stop the heat from traveling far enough towards the head of the case could soften it so much as to make it become dangerous.

Do you suppose it's called "case annealing" because it's a cartridge case?

 

[Rem700addict]

Ahh, thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. We didn't get into talking about alloys much, we focused more on steel and my assumptions were in relation to steel. I didn't know the exact purpose of the water quench, thanks again for the explanation.