Planning a 250 Savage Build - Two Barrels, Many Questions

[OutsideBill]

I would suggest hitting a few estate auctions. You don't need a new manual. I bought 2 sometimes 3 manuals for less than one new manual. And you may be surprised by what else is there for sale like reloading equipment & components. I would only buy powder if it's unopened and at a good price. This is where your phone will come in handy to compare prices. Know what you're buying & what you're willing to spend is key. Stick to your prices you set. A lot of these sales will give you a day or two to look at the products before the sale.Take the time & do it. I bought a new press. But could have bought practically new at the estate sales for a lot less. Most of the estate sales will list as reloading & guns. I have a few auctioneers locally that I check on their websites to see what & when they have the goodies I am looking for. I would guess I have bought around 8 different manuals for less than $80.00. That includes 2 Nosler 8 & 9 manuals. Hornady version 1 & 2. Speer, Sierra, Lyman. etc.

Great tips. Thank you!

 

[OutsideBill]

I bedded the woody last night. You can kind of see how much wood is left after opening up the barrel channel.

 

[Coldfinger]

Thanks for the tips!

For a tad bit more step into a Remington 700 shorty and the options are endless!

 

[OutsideBill]

For a tad bit more step into a Remington 700 shorty and the options are endless!

As much as I would love to do that, I've already got too many projects to finish. Maybe in the future. I had one Remington 700 years ago and I loved it.

 

[1stpitch]

Thought I'd make an update to this thread in case anyone checks it out later with 250 Savage or Axis build questions.

Both rifles were completed on Axis actions. One is a youth hunting rifle built on Savage youth model Axis with a Shaw sporter barrel that I picked up from a LRH member. The second is built on a Savage Axis II XP in wood stock with a Shilen heavy varmint barrel that I got from another LRH member.

Both builds were easy, straight forward, and inexpensive. In fact, they can hardly be considered builds at all. The re-barrel task is not hard, but check out the Savage shooters forum for tips on barrel removal as they have a lot of debris under the barrel nut (I believe it is media they use for texturing the barrel and action at the factory), and it can ruin the threads if you're not carefull during removal. Setting the head space is simple on Savage rifles. I ended up getting the help of a gunsmith, but he confirmed I was ok setting it with my go gauge, even though the factory Hornady ammo was initially a slightly tight fit on the Shaw barrel. Just had to back off the gauge ever so slightly to correct that. I had to do a little trigger work on the youth Axis, and open up the barrel channel on the wood Axis II, but those were not complicated tasks.

The Axis platform is easy to build on, but it is different than the Savage 10/110. The surface contact areas and lug system are not the same. It does have a more fully enclosed receiver, meaning the top isn't fully open above the ejection port like on a standard 10/110. Rather, it has more metal up top with smaller ejection port that resembles the Savage target model actions. Based on that, it appears to be more robustly built than the 10/110. Whether it is capable of the kind of top accuracy needed for long range hunting is not something I can speak to yet, but I think it has promise. I have less than $1000 in both guns combined (not counting the glass on the wood model). That was possible by finding great deals on complete Axis donor guns (the XP included a scope, and both rifles earned a $75 rebate from Savage), and great deals on barrels from LRH members. I also now have two extra barrels.

Both rifles shoot factory Hornady and HSM ammo well enough. The youth model was shooting 3-shot groups in the .9 to 1.5 inch range once it was zeroed. The wood stock model shoots slightly better (but it has better glass and a better trigger). Not much difference in the accuracy of the factory ammo other than a 1" or so shift in POI with the youth model. Neither gun has had any additional work yet to improve accuracy and they're both good enough for close-in hunting (200 yards or so) right now.

The youth model will not likely be changed much. I did a little work on the standard trigger (not an accu-trigger) to lower the pull weight and smooth it up. It needs a better scope (the XP scope is not very clear, has short eye relief, and has noticeable parralax at 100 yds). It would be worth putting a shim kit in the bolt to smooth it up, and a better trigger, if the grandson takes to it. I think he'll like the size, weight, and low recoil.

The wood stocked Axis II will likely be an ongoing project gun. I hope to get into reloading soon, and that will be the gun I use for learning, partly because 250 SAV ammo is so darned expensive and there are so few options. I will most likely bed the rifle and will be looking at a shim kit for the bolt. My hope is to make it a consistent sub-moa shooter that I can use to learn with and enjoy at the range or on a deer stand.

I'm quite pleased with these two new "nostalgia" guns, and would definitely recommend this approach to anyone looking to learn something new and create a personalized rifle on a budget.

And last, thanks to all the support (advice and materials) that I received from the LRH community, especially @std7mag and @1stpitch .

Sorry I'm late seeing this. Glad it worked out for you.

 

[OutsideBill]

Sorry I'm late seeing this. Glad it worked out for you.

Unfortunately, my grandson wasn't able to get a deer this year. I still have a hunt coming up and I think I'll take my wood-stocked rifle. I plan on hunting a stand, so the weight won't be an issue.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

I'll need to see if I can find a good Youtube video on bedding the Axis. The fact that the lug is in the stock and not on the action might present some challenges.

Is C&C cup and core? I'm curious. The 250 Savage round isn't very hot, and he's probably only going to be using it small deer and hogs. I would have assumed the Partition wouldn't be necessary. My plan was to find a hunting bullet that the rifle shot well. But maybe I'm missing something.?

Not needed for its penetration on normal shots but the Partition buys a lot of penetration for quartering shots and the front half comes apart so violently and consistently that they work as well or better than any c&c.
Ive killed a whole bunch of deer with the 250 savage, none with a PT but its a fantastic idea. I used them in a 22-250 and was so inpressed with the work of that 60gr bullet.

What bullet(s) are ya running? I missed that post.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Thought I'd make an update to this thread in case anyone checks it out later with 250 Savage or Axis build questions.

Both rifles were completed on Axis actions. One is a youth hunting rifle built on Savage youth model Axis with a Shaw sporter barrel that I picked up from a LRH member. The second is built on a Savage Axis II XP in wood stock with a Shilen heavy varmint barrel that I got from another LRH member.

Both builds were easy, straight forward, and inexpensive. In fact, they can hardly be considered builds at all. The re-barrel task is not hard, but check out the Savage shooters forum for tips on barrel removal as they have a lot of debris under the barrel nut (I believe it is media they use for texturing the barrel and action at the factory), and it can ruin the threads if you're not carefull during removal. Setting the head space is simple on Savage rifles. I ended up getting the help of a gunsmith, but he confirmed I was ok setting it with my go gauge, even though the factory Hornady ammo was initially a slightly tight fit on the Shaw barrel. Just had to back off the gauge ever so slightly to correct that. I had to do a little trigger work on the youth Axis, and open up the barrel channel on the wood Axis II, but those were not complicated tasks.

The Axis platform is easy to build on, but it is different than the Savage 10/110. The surface contact areas and lug system are not the same. It does have a more fully enclosed receiver, meaning the top isn't fully open above the ejection port like on a standard 10/110. Rather, it has more metal up top with smaller ejection port that resembles the Savage target model actions. Based on that, it appears to be more robustly built than the 10/110. Whether it is capable of the kind of top accuracy needed for long range hunting is not something I can speak to yet, but I think it has promise. I have less than $1000 in both guns combined (not counting the glass on the wood model). That was possible by finding great deals on complete Axis donor guns (the XP included a scope, and both rifles earned a $75 rebate from Savage), and great deals on barrels from LRH members. I also now have two extra barrels.

Both rifles shoot factory Hornady and HSM ammo well enough. The youth model was shooting 3-shot groups in the .9 to 1.5 inch range once it was zeroed. The wood stock model shoots slightly better (but it has better glass and a better trigger). Not much difference in the accuracy of the factory ammo other than a 1" or so shift in POI with the youth model. Neither gun has had any additional work yet to improve accuracy and they're both good enough for close-in hunting (200 yards or so) right now.

The youth model will not likely be changed much. I did a little work on the standard trigger (not an accu-trigger) to lower the pull weight and smooth it up. It needs a better scope (the XP scope is not very clear, has short eye relief, and has noticeable parralax at 100 yds). It would be worth putting a shim kit in the bolt to smooth it up, and a better trigger, if the grandson takes to it. I think he'll like the size, weight, and low recoil.

The wood stocked Axis II will likely be an ongoing project gun. I hope to get into reloading soon, and that will be the gun I use for learning, partly because 250 SAV ammo is so darned expensive and there are so few options. I will most likely bed the rifle and will be looking at a shim kit for the bolt. My hope is to make it a consistent sub-moa shooter that I can use to learn with and enjoy at the range or on a deer stand.

I'm quite pleased with these two new "nostalgia" guns, and would definitely recommend this approach to anyone looking to learn something new and create a personalized rifle on a budget.

And last, thanks to all the support (advice and materials) that I received from the LRH community, especially @std7mag and @1stpitch .

Very cool. My favorite cartridge!
Are both of the throats Saami?
And if so are you going to have a lil freebore put in your rifle?

Just wondering as the saami spec COL is so short with those at 2.515" that I always wonder what I could get seating them out to not use all that powder space.

Even so I had 100gr speer boattails runnin 2960 in my 22" ole Savage 1899. Burnin H4350 which is cool because u cant get enough in to overpressure ur rifle Nd doubly cool because leveractions will show u in extraction issues wayy before pressured could become dangerous, assuming u work up from low of course.

I rebarreled this rifle in 2011 to a 10" twist, and with that load I could hit a 2" target regularly at 400 yards. Very accurate combo.

 

[OutsideBill]

Very cool. My favorite cartridge!
Are both of the throats Saami?
And if so are you going to have a lil freebore put in your rifle?

Just wondering as the saami spec COL is so short with those at 2.515" that I always wonder what I could get seating them out to not use all that powder space.

Even so I had 100gr speer boattails runnin 2960 in my 22" ole Savage 1899. Burnin H4350 which is cool because u cant get enough in to overpressure ur rifle Nd doubly cool because leveractions will show u in extraction issues wayy before pressured could become dangerous, assuming u work up from low of course.

I rebarreled this rifle in 2011 to a 10" twist, and with that load I could hit a 2" target regularly at 400 yards. Very accurate combo.

Very cool what you've done with your rifle. I love the 1899 (my first deer rifle), and I believe the 250 Savage round is capable of a good bit more performance with modest changes, especially in a bolt action.

Since I bought both barrels from members and they were already chambered, I don't know much about them. My assumption is they are both SAAMI spec with the standard short freebore.

Buried earlier in the thread I talked about the fact that factory Hornady ammo in the youth rifle was a concern when setting head space. I initially set it myself using a go gauge. With the headspace just a smidge off the gauge, a factory round required just a bit of effort when closing the bolt. As best I could tell, the bullet was engaging the lands. I took it to a local gunsmith and he confirmed. He set it up about the same, but with slightly more headspace. When he was done, I couldn't close the bolt on a go gauge with two layers of tape, and I couldn't feel the bullet engaging the lands. He believed the bullet was right at the lands, which is how he prefers to set up a rifle. Not everyone likes that, but that's his approach.

The wood stocked rifle didn't have that headspace issue. I set that headspace myself with the go gauge. Again, the bolt would close on the go gauge, but would not close on it with two layers of tape.

Both rifles shot two kinds of factory ammo (Hornady and HSM) fine with no issues in cycling the bolt and no signs of pressure. I think the youth rifle will be kept as is and will run only factory ammo for now.

In the future I plan to start reloading for this chamber. When I get to that point, I will start investigating the chamber more fully, especially in the wood stocked rifle. I plan to use it as my learning and experimenting platform, and should be able to push that 250 Savage round more fully, within the limits of the 10 twist rifling. I might reach out to you in the future for some advice since you are apparently well down that road.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Very cool what you've done with your rifle. I love the 1899 (my first deer rifle), and I believe the 250 Savage round is capable of a good bit more performance with modest changes, especially in a bolt action.

My assumption is they are both SAAMI spec with the standard short freebore.

Buried earlier in the thread I talked about the fact that factory Hornady ammo...

Both rifles shot two kinds of factory ammo (Hornady and HSM) fine with no issues in cycling the bolt and no signs of pressure. I think the youth rifle will be kept as is and will run only factory ammo for now.

In the future I plan to start reloading for this chamber. When I get to that point, I will start investigating the chamber more fully, especially in the wood stocked rifle. I plan to use it as my learning and experimenting platform, and should be able to push that 250 Savage round more fully, within the limits of the 10 twist rifling. I might reach out to you in the future for some advice since you are apparently well down that road.

Yes feel free to reach out.
You could always have the throat on your rifle lengthened. Thatd help and be easy for a smith to do, not expensive.

Ive taken a few deer with the hornady 100sp and it worked well but not impressive. I posted to 24hr and John Barsness said thats because that bullet is designed to withstand 3500fps from the 257Weatherby factory loads so its a harder bullet.

Sierra and speer 100 grainers would be a good bet when you do reload. Nosler 100gr Ballistic Tip excellent as well.

I have load data and notes for bullets from 80-120 grains in my rifle. This cartridge is the great great grandfather of a handful modern accuracy type cartidges. Its quite efficent considering its 110yrs old.

You can buy very high quality 22-250 brass and neck it to 250 in one pass.

 

[OutsideBill]

Yes feel free to reach out.
You could always have the throat on your rifle lengthened. Thatd help and be easy for a smith to do, not expensive.

Ive taken a few deer with the hornady 100sp and it worked well but not impressive. I posted to 24hr and John Barsness said thats because that bullet is designed to withstand 3500fps from the 257Weatherby factory loads so its a harder bullet.

Sierra and speer 100 grainers would be a good bet when you do reload. Nosler 100gr Ballistic Tip excellent as well.

I have load data and notes for bullets from 80-120 grains in my rifle. This cartridge is the great great grandfather of a handful modern accuracy type cartidges. Its quite efficent considering its 110yrs old.

You can buy very high quality 22-250 brass and neck it to 250 in one pass.

Have you been able to stabilize the 120 grain bullets? I know the higher velocities you're pushing will make a difference, but the information I've seen on bullet makers' web sites and such seem to indicate 100 to 110 grains are about the limit on stabilizing with a 1:10 twist. If you can stabilize a traditional 120 grain bullet, I wonder how heavy a copper solid you could push? I think it's just a matter of time until most public hunting spots are forced into that.

Between the two rifles, I have generated probably 140 rounds of once fired brass. As long as I can get factory ammo and keep generating a supply of brass, I would prefer to do that. I would like to avoid having to worry about head stamp mismatch, especially since these rifles are to be used by multiple family members.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Ive shot the heavies well enough, stable or marginally stable at least. I did not devote as much time as I would have had the lead free situation not come about. I wouldnt hesitate to try any bullet for 1:10 and mebbe some 1:9s as well.
Im with you, I feel as in Europe a lead ban is a movement that will grow. The bullet situation is much better now than it was at least.

Length is the hurdle more than weight but in general youre limited to bullet length around 1.2" in my conditions and rifle. The good news is every bullet makes who covers this caliber offers bullets made to work in a 1:10. In copper that gets you around 90-100 grains.

I hear you on the brass situation. Ive had great luck with regular Winchester and Hornady brass. If ya wanted to get very into details one could always weight sort, cull and prep the way target shooters did for decades before we had a handful of premium brass makers at our disposal.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

heres a pic of some 25 cal bullets Ive played with in a couple rifles. Note the length of the green tipped 100gr ETip on the right side in conparison to the red tipped 117SST.

And then theres that ETip seated to 2.508" C.O.L. This is why I was asking if you were gunna lengthen the throat some, to seat that bullet outta the powder space and gain some speed. I run that ETip at a bit over 2800 with imr4064.

 

[OutsideBill]

heres a puc of some 25 cal bullets Ive played with in a couple rifles. Note the length of the green tipped 100gr ETip on the right side in conparison to the red tipped 117SST.

And then theres that ETip seated to 2.508" C.O.L. This is why I was asking if you were gunna lengthen the throat some, to seat that bullet outta the powder space and gain some speed. I run that ETip at a bit over 2800 with imr4064.

To answer your question, I might lengthen the throat on the wood stocked rifle. I'm certainly open to that as an option to improve the utility by allowing the use of longer, heavier bullets.

If you're having success stabilizing those longer bullets, I consider that good news. I think the improved ballistics are worth pursuing. Although not considered a long range hunting option by most, better bullets and higher velocities should make the 250 Savage quite potent at extended ranges.