Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

From the European point of view you should really buy a Sauer SSG (sniper rifle) 3000 or a Heym 21 Precision. Both guarantee 5 shot groups based on factory ammo(!!) with less than 20mm (0,7in) at 100m. :D Normally they do much better than that. :) They are hard to beat due to performance out of the box. Both have already prepared and installed mounting systems. Put on a glass of your choice (Vortex, Sightron?) and have fun. gun)
 
I figger it'll take me 4-5 years to use up all the 22 caliber bullets & brass I have. I also have a lot of 9mm, .44, .45, & .30 cast bullets to shoot. I also have a very nice & expensive FX Cutlas 22 caliber air rifle with a target grade barrel and a very nice adjustable trigger. I have 15 guns to shoot. I have a full load just shooting all of my guns. I really doubt I'll have enough years left to take on another new project. I'd already changed my mind about any improved calibers that essentially eat up barrels. If I do decide on a larger caliber, I won't go larger than a 6mm. I'd then likely send the LRVP back to Savage and have it done by them.
If I had a range 10-15 minutes away, the time frame could change. I'll never have a range with more than 500 yards available either. Keep in mind, I'm just a paper puncher, I never wanted to compete in any shooting events. I prefer to compete only with myself. I've never felt a need or wanted to beat someone in competition. I also enjoy shooting alone with no distractions.
I love this website though and enjoy reading about others experiences & ideas such as yours & many of the other experienced people who visit this website.

Thanks Gary.

Spencer

I used to have access to a pair of 1000 meter military ranges about twenty minutes from my front door, but they're restricted now. I'd pay to shoot on them, and think most guys would as well. At the sametime I also had access to a 50 yard thru 400 yard private range, but three teen agers killed the owner and wounded his wife. Killed that one off as well, and it was nice & safe. So now I'm down to two or three ranges these days, but have one 1000 meter range that may open up to me.

I got into 22 rim fire bench rest a few years back. Was shooting very will in 100 yard bench rest, but actually had more trouble with the 50 yard stuff. Doesn't make a lick of sense I know! Then it got serious, and as most of us already it also gets a lot more expensive! I did build one rifle that shot pretty well, but still wouldn't run with the big dogs. It did place third at Calfee's Saturday night shoot, and that's a real though match to shoot in. On the otherhand there was about half the money in the barreled action than the rest of the top ten finishers. What killed 22 bench rest for me was not the price of the rifle, but the price of ammo! You have to really buy it in lots (not all lots of ammo shoots the same, so each lot is a gamble) of 1000 rounds, and the big boys are buy as much as 10,000 rounds! At $15 a hundred rounds (remember you gotta practice), it just blew by me. If your not shoot Federal Olympic Gold you ain't gonna win much. Add to this the fact that it cost as much to build that rim fire as most all centerfire bench guns, and it becomes a rich man's sport.
gary
 
I've already talked to Effie a couple of times & you're right, she is very knowledgeable. She has had every answer at the top of her mind every time I've talked to her.
Actually, I can't think of any other options I might want.
I already have everything I need except my new Savage. My new Weaver scope came in last week & my new custom Farrel rings & base arrived a few days later. When my rifle arrives I'll glass bed the base, mount the scope, bore sight it & weather permitting, head for the range. In the meantime, I'll shoot my Remington 788 & my 221 Fireball, until it arrives.
I like shooting early in the morning when it's cooler & when the wind is the most calm.

I think I've become addicted to this website. There's no one close to where I live that knows much about guns.

if I wanted a Savage, and didn't have the action yet; I'd be looking at the PTA action with a nice barrel. You start out with an action that is three times stiffer than the conventional Savage action. A trigger that will go down to five or six ounces. It comes to you very strait (less than .002"), has a third bedding screw in the correct place and is perpendicular to the axis centerline. For $500, this one is a winner!

There's also the Savage custom shop option (about $1750), and you can order just about any caliber they now chamber or have chambered in the past. The built rifle comes with a proof target that has three shots from factory loaded ammo. The one I examined was chambered in 6BR, and the three shot target was about .180" using factory Federal ammo. P.S. tested one in 22-250 that also came with a sub .20" target. That gun in 6BR with good hand loads ought to be plain scarey!
gary
 
if I wanted a Savage, and didn't have the action yet; I'd be looking at the PTA action with a nice barrel. You start out with an action that is three times stiffer than the conventional Savage action. A trigger that will go down to five or six ounces. It comes to you very strait (less than .002"), has a third bedding screw in the correct place and is perpendicular to the axis centerline. For $500, this one is a winner!

There's also the Savage custom shop option (about $1750), and you can order just about any caliber they now chamber or have chambered in the past. The built rifle comes with a proof target that has three shots from factory loaded ammo. The one I examined was chambered in 6BR, and the three shot target was about .180" using factory Federal ammo. P.S. tested one in 22-250 that also came with a sub .20" target. That gun in 6BR with good hand loads ought to be plain scarey!
gary

I have the Dual-Port "Left Load, Right Eject" Single Shot Target action on my Savage. I suspect it will compete on stiffness quite well compared to any of them out there. The stock also has 12 slots (5/16"x 1¾") 3 on each side & 6 on the bottom of the beavertail BR stock.
The trigger on this one is adjustable from 6oz to 18oz. I presently have it adjusted to 10 oz.
I only have 320 rounds thru it to date. I can't see for ****. After about 10 rounds things begin to look a little fuzzy. I blame a lot of it on my trifocals, which aren't suitable for shooting…… especially thru a scope. I recently ordered a new pair of glasses to my specifications which have a shorter focal length out of the top and more depth from the top of the frame to the next focal length. I have high hopes that they will help these 72 year old eyes shoot more consistently & better.
Most of my shooting has been load development with 6-7 different bullets & 4 different powders. I believe the barrel is worn in now, so I blame any bad groups mostly on myself & these lousy glasses.
I wish I'd have looked into getting a pair of specialty glasses before.

Spencer
 
Mag or no mag... that is the question!

if I wanted a Savage, and didn't have the action yet; I'd be looking at the PTA action with a nice barrel. You start out with an action that is three times stiffer than the conventional Savage action. A trigger that will go down to five or six ounces. It comes to you very strait (less than .002"), has a third bedding screw in the correct place and is perpendicular to the axis centerline. For $500, this one is a winner!

There's also the Savage custom shop option (about $1750), and you can order just about any caliber they now chamber or have chambered in the past. The built rifle comes with a proof target that has three shots from factory loaded ammo. The one I examined was chambered in 6BR, and the three shot target was about .180" using factory Federal ammo. P.S. tested one in 22-250 that also came with a sub .20" target. That gun in 6BR with good hand loads ought to be plain scarey!
gary

Gary,

Believe me that 3 screw action is action is still at the top of the possibility list, but I'm just wondering if it would turn in a big enough difference in group size for a 308 vs. something with a mag? I don't mind going the custom shop route, as that is about the price of a 10 BA anyway.

I'm still leaning towards the 6.5 creedmoor round, but the 308 would be a second choice. I had read a lot of good things about the 10 BA, and the ammo is cheap, so that's why I gave that round/gun so much weight.

Does anyone know about some custom adjustable stocks from Savage?
 
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Re: Mag or no mag... that is the question!

Gary,

Believe me that 3 screw action is action is still at the top of the possibility list, but I'm just wondering if it would turn in a big enough difference in group size for a 308 vs. something with a mag? I don't mind going the custom shop route, as that is about the price of a 10 BA anyway.

I'm still leaning towards the 6.5 creedmoor round, but the 308 would be a second choice. I had read a lot of good things about the 10 BA, and the ammo is cheap, so that's why I gave that round/gun so much weight.

Does anyone know about some custom adjustable stocks from Savage?

The model 12 Palma has an adjustable cheek piece & the butt plate is adjustable for length of pull.
Go to the Savage Arms website & look at their Target Series.


Talk to Effie at Savage. She helped me a lot when I ordered what I wanted thru their custom shop. She can be reached at (800) 370-0708 or (413) 568-7001. If I recall correctly, I think it took about 3 months to get mine. This'd be a good time to order one if you don't plan on using it to hunt this Fall & Winter.

Spencer
 
Re: Mag or no mag... that is the question!

The model 12 Palma has an adjustable cheek piece & the butt plate is adjustable for length of pull.
Go to the Savage Arms website & look at their Target Series.


Talk to Effie at Savage. She helped me a lot when I ordered what I wanted thru their custom shop. She can be reached at (800) 370-0708 or (413) 568-7001. If I recall correctly, I think it took about 3 months to get mine. This'd be a good time to order one if you don't plan on using it to hunt this Fall & Winter.

Spencer


I actually had Effie price me out a 12 Palma with the PTA (single shot/dual port receiver) in the 6.5 Creedmor with a 30"HMPV S barrel (un-fluted 30") and it ran about $2,400 retail ($1900 dealer).

She said the stock was a big part of that though. Doing the same thing with just a 12 Benchrest stock brought it down to $1500 dealer priced.

Ahhh... decisions, decisions!!!
 
Re: Mag or no mag... that is the question!

I actually had Effie price me out a 12 Palma with the PTA (single shot/dual port receiver) in the 6.5 Creedmor with a 30"HMPV S barrel (un-fluted 30") and it ran about $2,400 retail ($1900 dealer).

She said the stock was a big part of that though. Doing the same thing with just a 12 Benchrest stock brought it down to $1500 dealer priced.

Ahhh... decisions, decisions!!!

That's pretty much what I did. But I opted for the BR stock & a fluted 26 inch barrel. A good friend of mine, a dealer himself, sold mine to me which included taxes, shipping & transfer fee for $1750.00. I had previously purchased a Weaver 8-32x w/50mm objective lens. I also purchased Farrel Industries rings & base (expensive). Ready to shoot, I've got $2400.00 wrapped up in mine. I also had opted for the 6oz to 1.5 lb adjustable trigger. I love that trigger! I wish I'd have opted for the same stock as you have.
I'm old & my shooting skills seem to have deteriorated over the years. I recently bought some special glasses that allow me to see better thru my scope. The focal length at the to is the same and the middle part of my previous trifocals. I hope they help improve my shooting.

Hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.

Spencer
 
Re: Mag or no mag... that is the question!

That's pretty much what I did. But I opted for the BR stock & a fluted 26 inch barrel. A good friend of mine, a dealer himself, sold mine to me which included taxes, shipping & transfer fee for $1750.00. I had previously purchased a Weaver 8-32x w/50mm objective lens. I also purchased Farrel Industries rings & base (expensive). Ready to shoot, I've got $2400.00 wrapped up in mine. I also had opted for the 6oz to 1.5 lb adjustable trigger. I love that trigger! I wish I'd have opted for the same stock as you have.


Spencer


Spencer,

Thanks for the info on the rings. I'll have to check those out.

Also, is that 6 oz to 1.5lb trigger an option from Savage, or is it an aftermarket one? If it's from Savage, is it an Accu-trigger, or some special setup?

Thanks again!
 
I am going to suggest something out of the box that nobody else has yet.

While I am sure that a $1500 custom shop Savage is going to shoot lights out, I can't help but think that for what your goals are, you don't need to spend that much on a custom gun. If you were going to be using it in competition and really trying to wring the accuracy out of it, absolutely put up the cash and go for it.

Lets look at .25 compared to .5 moa at 1000 yards. .5 moa at 1000 yards is 5 inches, .25 is 2.5 inches. I don't think someone who is just having fun shooting a long ways is going to notice a .25 compared to a .5. Wind is going to have far more affect on long range shooting that .25moa accuracy. Most people who want to have long range fun shoot at 12x12 or larger steel plates so they get feedback and instant gratification.

But you are not going to be hand loading or shooting competitively. Shooting tiny groups is going to come with practice, you can't just buy a skill. You are looking at a minimum $100 to $180 max? in factory ammo for 100 shots. I don't know how many rounds it is going to take you to achieve the level of skill and consistency needed to make tiny groups, but 1000 rounds is going to be a big chunk of cash in itself.

What I would suggest is to get a savage/stevens 200 in 308($300), a pac-nor or similar prechambered barrel select match barrel, in either 6.5 creed or 308($450), aftermarket trigger or accutrigger ($100), and aftermarket stock($100-400) and a swfa fixed power scope 12 or 16 power ($300). Put it all together and bed the stock, if you feel capable or take it to a gunsmith and they will do it for much less than a remington. Then sell the take offs, the barrel alone will get 60-100 back.

The stock stevens action is more than capable of great accuracy
Shooting A 223 Rifle To A Mile Accurately

Any stock that is bedded, pillared, and free floated is going to work well enough and those things are pretty easy to do, but getting a stock that already has pillars simplifies the work a lot. Regardless of what stock you get you are going to have to bed it(they might have that done on a savage custom shop).

This is more than enough to shoot .5 moa out to 1000 and including optics, you spent a total of $1300(depending on stock and trigger) leaving you $1700 to spend on PRACTICE. you can knock 450 off by practicing with the stock 308 barrel and then replacing it when you wanna stretch out and need more accuracy. Even less if you find a used action.

For simply a range "fun" gun fixed power stevens action works and you get a sense of accomplishment and pride pulling it all together. If you don't end up liking the gun or long range shooting for that matter, all those parts will sell easily(try finding a stripped stevens action). A custom savage might not sell as quickly as that action is not as versatile.

Simply my opinion, obviously, but I am cheap and like to try a thing out and see if I actually have time and desire to actually do it before I spend $3000 on a gun and optics and potently another $1000 to $2000 on ammo.
 
Savage LRP 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 Rem = $950
SWFA SS 12X fixed scope = $300
Burris Extreme Tactical 30mm low rings = $55
EGW 20MOA HD one piece mount = $60
Harris Bipod = $95

Savage LRP has the target accutrigger which can be adjusted down to 6oz and now comes with a good HS Precision tactical stock.

$1460 and you have a great rifle for learning long range (out to 1200+ yds) precision shooting.
 
Savage LRP has the target accutrigger which can be adjusted down to 6oz and now comes with a good HS Precision tactical stock.

$1460 and you have a great rifle for learning long range (out to 1200+ yds) precision shooting.

Pretty much sums up the other option. There are two kinds of people.

I just think that a super match grade barrel from [insert favorite savage prefit barrel maker here] is going to beat the factory barrel.
 
Savage LRP 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 Rem = $950
SWFA SS 12X fixed scope = $300
Burris Extreme Tactical 30mm low rings = $55
EGW 20MOA HD one piece mount = $60
Harris Bipod = $95

Savage LRP has the target accutrigger which can be adjusted down to 6oz and now comes with a good HS Precision tactical stock.

$1460 and you have a great rifle for learning long range (out to 1200+ yds) precision shooting.

Pretty much sums up the other option. There are two kinds of people.

I just think that a super match grade barrel from [insert favorite savage prefit barrel maker here] is going to beat the factory barrel.


Guys,

Thanks for the great advice. I had never thought of it, but a fixed 10 or 12x (leaning more towards the 12) would probably be plenty good for what I'm looking to use it for.

Here's what I'm struggling with though:

While I understand the benefit of not going crazy with equipment, I am not afraid to pay for quality, especially if it will save me money in the long run(ie: buying a cheaper gun, then selling it at a loss to buy the gun I really wanted in the first place.) and allow me to grow into the gun vs. out grow it. I used to play a lot of pool and when I bought my first really nice case, the guy recommended I get a 2x4 (2 butt, 4 shaft) case instead of the 1x2 I was looking at. I told him I only had the one cue. He said, "You do now, but this will allow you to add another down the road without buying another case since you can put one cue in a 2x4, but you can't put 2 cues in a 1x2!" Well I didn't want to spend the extra money, so I got the small case and regretted it later on!

That said these last two options are more of a way to better spend money than just trying to build this as cheaply as possible. I would still start out with a great stock/action/trigger and probably even scope, then have the ability to swap out the barrel if and when that ever holds me back or I fall in love with this and want to go big on my next build.

Seriously you guys and this forum are HANDS DOWN the best I've ever ran across, and I'm so thankful you are taking some of your valuable time to share your wisdom and experience with me!

THANK YOU ALL!!!
 
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