Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

[DakotaGlockGuy]

Barrel

with a little luck and a very light contoured barrel you can shoot bug holes, but it's a lot easier with a very stiff and ridgid barrel due to harmonics alone. Read some of Bill Calfee's writings and you'll see this comming true.
gary

I'll see what I can dig up on Calfee. I've seen this in other areas, so I just wanted to see how it applied here.

Also, when you say light contoured and Very stiff, rigid barrel, is it more the diameter you're talking about? I'm just wondering if that 30" heavy duty barrel is the way to go, or if I should go a bit shorter/thinner?

Thanks again for the info!

 

[backwoods83]

When using the same contour or straight taper profile, for instance 1" at the muzzle, a 26" will be more rigid than a 30", but a 26" varmint .850" at the muzzle would be close to the same as a 30"x1".

 

[DakotaGlockGuy]

Barrel diameter

When using the same contour or straight taper profile, for instance 1" at the muzzle, a 26" will be more rigid than a 30", but a 26" varmint .850" at the muzzle would be close to the same as a 30"x1".

That's what I was wondering, though re-reading my post, I missed a key point. I was wondering (and this is a question for Savage) *what* the standard barrel diameter was, as all they show is the length. I didn't know if the 30" was beefier because of the length, but I figured there had to be some difference between the normal barrel and the longer barrel. I just didn't know how much it was.

 

[backwoods83]

I have owned 3 with the 30" barrels, still own 2, and they measure .947-.951" at the muzzle. One of the current 6.5x284s ( 12 F class ) measures .947" and has been shooting a hair over 1/8 moa with 140 bergers at 3155fps.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Re: Barrel

I'll see what I can dig up on Calfee. I've seen this in other areas, so I just wanted to see how it applied here.

Also, when you say light contoured and Very stiff, rigid barrel, is it more the diameter you're talking about? I'm just wondering if that 30" heavy duty barrel is the way to go, or if I should go a bit shorter/thinner?

Thanks again for the info!

Bill is most noted for his rimfire rifles, but as built more than one centerfire bench gun in his time. When he first brought out his ideas on barrel harmonics, he was laughed at by the guys that usually place in the lower half of the top ten. He taught us how to "ring a barrel" and those without a clue laughed him again. But his rifles just kept on winning. He told us about the way triggers were supposed to work instead of why we are buying trigger that don't work. We laughed at him, but he was right. He told us that he uses two out of every five barrel blanks he recieves and the barrel makes went nuts. But he keeps on winning. He set the standard on how to slug a barrel, and 90% failed to grasp what he was achiving. Then we get into his ideas on extractors and ejectors (most are rimfire stuff, but many times still apply to centerfire). The idea of a barrel tuner was probably not his idea, but Bill was the guy that made them work (all a tuner does is change the barrel harmonics in a generay way). I might add here that if you've never had the chance to see what he can do with an XP100 action (old single shot version) your missing out on something.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Re: Barrel diameter

That's what I was wondering, though re-reading my post, I missed a key point. I was wondering (and this is a question for Savage) *what* the standard barrel diameter was, as all they show is the length. I didn't know if the 30" was beefier because of the length, but I figured there had to be some difference between the normal barrel and the longer barrel. I just didn't know how much it was.

couple points here with barrel threads and such:

* the large shank Savage barrel thread will handle a good bit more torsional stress than the standard one will. How much more many will debate. This brings us into issue number two with all the big players.

* the female thread inside the bridge of the reciever is too short on just about every rifle made. In otherwords fails to do a good job at supporting the barrels weight. Many folks work on the idea that the strongest thread is the same length as the thread diameter. Pretty good in shear and tension, but has it's limits as well. You'd probably a 1.5x factor to start seeing an improvement, and double to get real serious. Just can't be done as well already know. So the reciever's shoulder becomes a fulcrum point. Just the nature of the beast. You screw a super duper barrel into the reciever and then stop to think about what you've just done. There is clearence between the female pitch diameter and the male pitch diameter. Otherwise it wouldn't go together. Then you add into the equation things like lead error in the threads (unless you cut both threads on the same machine you will have lead error). This further adds to the quagmire. A large diameter thread (over an inch) is going to fit looser than something like a half inch thread. Otherwise you'll destroy the threads on assembly. With a shoulder lock up of the threads your probably getting less than 25% thread contact at best, and maybe only four or five threads in tight contact. With a nut you actually pull the threads into contact. How much depends on the quality of the turning operation and who ground the tool. Ideally the best thread for this would be a ground butress thread, but doubt there's four people here that have ever turned one let alone ground one. The thread in 85% contact is known as a stretched thread in the engineering world. Known to be far stiffer and as strait as the female thread it forms to. This will greatly resist the torsional issues of the long heavy barrel. Perfect? Nope! But much better. A good way to test the thread contact is with a tube of Hi Spot Blue and some red lead. The results will scare you
gary

 

[DakotaGlockGuy]

Learning curve... VERY STEEP!!!

Guys,

Again thanks so much for your help with this. The experience and knowledge base on this forum is far beyond anything I have ever run across before. It's great that so many of you are willing to share the info you have so generously.

I'm excited about this new sport, even with the steep learning curve to it.

It's kind of funny, but when I read some pistol forums sometimes I get a little bored, but occasionally a lightbulb goes off.

The more I dig into this forum... the more my head hurts!!!!

 

[Trickymissfit]

Re: Learning curve... VERY STEEP!!!

Guys,

Again thanks so much for your help with this. The experience and knowledge base on this forum is far beyond anything I have ever run across before. It's great that so many of you are willing to share the info you have so generously.

I'm excited about this new sport, even with the steep learning curve to it.

It's kind of funny, but when I read some pistol forums sometimes I get a little bored, but occasionally a lightbulb goes off.

The more I dig into this forum... the more my head hurts!!!!

I did find out a couple days ago that you can simply buy the Savage PTA action for $505 from Northland. Add a Krieger barrel and a good stock, and your still under $1400 with a rifle capable of bug holes
gary

 

[backwoods83]

Gary you make an excellent piont, I purchased a NIB PTA from a member on here that is a dual port for 475.00, hawk hill customs is doing a 26.5" 1:11.2" twist 308win barrel with a break, and I will be using a 3 pillar stock from stockade, the moneysaver version that's only 315.00 so I will have a total of 1315.00 in it. If it shoots half as good as the right port 8.3 twist 6.5x284 like it in a savage f class stock that's bedded, it'll still be a quarter inch rifle. So this may be the way to go, I have 3 pta's, one is still a factory savage, I love all three, they all shoot great.

 

[Mark Yungblut]

I have a Savage 110 BA in .308 and out of the box it was a laser beam shooting rifle. I put a Vortex Viper 6.5-20 mildot on it and with Hornady factory match rounds I can put a bullet in an existing bullet hole if I control my breathing at 100 yds. With hand loading I can do 1/4" groups at 250- 300.

I chose it for two reasons. 1. was I had an AR10 in .308 and I wanted to standardize my bullet types. 2. You can do a lot of work on the rifle with the right tools yourself no need to go through a gunsmith.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I have a Savage 110 BA in .308 and out of the box it was a laser beam shooting rifle. I put a Vortex Viper 6.5-20 mildot on it and with Hornady factory match rounds I can put a bullet in an existing bullet hole if I control my breathing at 100 yds. With hand loading I can do 1/4" groups at 250- 300.

I chose it for two reasons. 1. was I had an AR10 in .308 and I wanted to standardize my bullet types. 2. You can do a lot of work on the rifle with the right tools yourself no need to go through a gunsmith.

there were road tests done a year or so ago, the the 110BAS was regarded as the most accurate production snipers rifle out there regardless of price. Like to see them offer it in .300 WBY mag
gary

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'd have to say that my most accurate out-of-the-box gun w/ factory ammo is my Remington 700 Sendero SF 7mmSTW with Federal Premium 160gr Accubonds. From the factory (with only a trigger job) it was shooting 1 ragged hole with that ammo. And now with handloads it's still a 1-hole gun.

 

[TracySes23]

Re: Update

Well I finally got through to Savage today. They are swamped, and I was on hold for over 20 minutes yesterday before I gave up. I was able to get through today and got some info.

Here's what I was looking for (the basics):

Model 12 LRPV
6.5 Creedmoor
30" Barrel - non-fluted
*Dual port (either left or right is possible)

Retail Price: $1,737.00 (That's RETAIL, not dealer price)

Anyway, this looks like the route I'm going to go, but would like some ideas on other options you guys think would be good.

Gary, or anybody else that had some info or a magazine article on this one, if you could post the specs they had I would be great! Apparently there is no list of options, but basically if you want it, they could probably do it.

You got the fever just like I did. I gotta have it! I ordered the LRPV in 22-250 with the dual port, with the 1 in 9 twist.
Since the longest distance I can shoot is 500 yards & I already have enough bullets & brass to last me till I die, the 22-250 will suit my needs fine. 40 boxes of bullets will last me a long time. I have to drive 100 miles round trip, for the nearest place to shoot. When I ordered mine, I was told the retail was $1720, but I have a good friend with and FFL who'll shave $250 off that price. Mine has the 26 inch barrel though.
Effie at the Savage custom shop told me a 6-8 week delivery & I'd have my gun. Three to five weeks to go.
I saw a 15-20 minute YouTube video near the end of January & I've had the bug ever since.

Spencer

 

[DakotaGlockGuy]

I'm still here!

Spencer,

Glad to hear it, and congrats on the new gun coming your way!

I've been sidetracked with some extra business expenses, but still plugging away on the budget for the long range gun. I'm pretty much set on the 6.5 Creedmoor, and have the glass picked out. Now I'm just waiting to get the budget together to pull the trigger. The good news is that I'm an FFL, so when I finally do pull the trigger, it will seem like Christmas when I get the package at my door!!!

Thanks again for all your help again with this thread. It is greatly appreciated!!!

Mike...