Best target caliber

[Trickymissfit]

In 1000-yard benchrest, the 30-calibers are still used by more shooters, but the little 6.5 is becoming more prevalent every season, and taking home more than its share of fake wood trophies. Rich DeSimone set a tough record to beat in the IBS Light Gun category with 1.564" 5-shot group at 1000 yards with his Ackleyized 6.5-284 Super and Clinch River 147s. Last year alone, John Hoover and his daughter Marissa each nailed perfect 100 scores at Williamsport with their 6.5-284s. In 1998, John shot Williamsport's first-ever perfect Light Gun 100 score, with 5X and a 5.585" group for TEN shots.


Williamsport is only about 20 min down the road from me. Anyway you look at it this is some **** good shooting.

One and one half inches at 1000 yards! WOW! It seems like it was only yesterday when that 16 year old kid tore everything up on the east coast with a Weatherby MK. V. in 300 WBY. mag. From what I hear the guys like the 6.5 because it has a lot less recoil to deal with, but when the wind picks up the big 30's are still the top dog.

If all goes well this comming summer, we are going to get access to a military 1000 yard range once a month down the road from me. I plan on shooting at that range, but for sure ain't gonna be shooting anything romotely close to those scores! I plan on shooting a 6BG in an eight twist barrel, but will start out with my 6/250AI. I just gotta figure out how to fit a 6.5 or 7mm into my game plan (I'm thinking 6.5-06 or a .280 improved). I been on that same range before, and it's a very nice range that is very flat (no elevation at all). Everything will have to be shot from the prone position, as there are no benches. Right now we are waiting for the Colonel to give us the go ahead.
gary

 

[TRG300WM]

Ok so I am thinking about building or buying a gun to target shoot. I have 2 300WM's and a 300WSM and love shooting long range targets when I am not hunting. It gets pretty expensive shooting the magnums alot

I really like my 6mm Dasher its incredibly accurate with little or no load development and will push a 105 gr bullet about 130-140 fps faster than the standard 6mmbr. But it requires fire forming, one of my favourite loads is 34.9 gr of H4895 CCI 450 M 70 Nosler BT at 3450+ fps
A standard 6mmBr will push a 55gr BT to 3700+, as fast or faster than a 22-250 shooting the same grain bullet.
With 31.5 gr of VV N135 it shoots an 80 gr at 3200 using less power than the 243w.......... but about 200 fps slower.

 

[sp6x6]

In 1000-yard benchrest, the 30-calibers are still used by more shooters, but the little 6.5 is becoming more prevalent every season, and taking home more than its share of fake wood trophies. Rich DeSimone set a tough record to beat in the IBS Light Gun category with 1.564" 5-shot group at 1000 yards with his Ackleyized 6.5-284 Super and Clinch River 147s. Last year alone, John Hoover and his daughter Marissa each nailed perfect 100 scores at Williamsport with their 6.5-284s. In 1998, John shot Williamsport's first-ever perfect Light Gun 100 score, with 5X and a 5.585" group for TEN shots.


Williamsport is only about 20 min down the road from me. Anyway you look at it this is some **** good shooting.

Whitefish rifle club is their sister club. Where my friends shoot, but due to politics of a sub divisoin, we lost our 1000 yrs range. They now have to shoot in missoula.Several shoot 6dasher, they shot 300wsm before, and hunt with there comp. guns asa rig gun. My on buddy shot a deer at 1560. He has shot about 6-8 records.

 

[cppbandit]

I have a 6mm Rem semi-auto, great for white-tail and coyotes, I love the flat trajectory. I also have an old 303 British and a 30-30 Winchester, it feels like I'm lobbing a stone shooting these after the 6mm.

So 6mm is fast and flat, my question is about going the distance.

My neighbor has a 45-70 and we launch about 20 bleach jugs into the lake and let them drift until they're at least 800 yards out, maybe 1000, and then he gets on a high hill and starts plunking them. In the military, dont know for sure, but dont the snipers use 50 cal these days?

My goal is to get something accurate at 1000 yards so I can beat my neighbor with the bleach jugs. It would be ideal to get a 6mm Rem set up with a long thick barrel and proper scope. Keep my ammo standardized. But will 6mm Rem carry that far accurately?

If not, in the low-cost-ammo category, what's the next best choice, maybe one that has enough wollop for a moose? I was thinking 308, maybe not best, but versatile?

 

[SBruce]

My neighbor has a 45-70 and we launch about 20 bleach jugs into the lake and let them drift until they're at least 800 yards out, maybe 1000, and then he gets on a high hill and starts plunking them. In the military, dont know for sure, but dont the snipers use 50 cal these days?

My goal is to get something accurate at 1000 yards so I can beat my neighbor with the bleach jugs. It would be ideal to get a 6mm Rem set up with a long thick barrel and proper scope. Keep my ammo standardized. But will 6mm Rem carry that far accurately?

Absolutely.

The 45-70 has got a trajectory like a rainbow and the wind blows it all over the place. It's only advantage over your 30-30 is that it has more knock down power due to a heavier bullet.

If you built an accurate bolt action in 6mm Remington, you could smoke the pants off your neighbors 45-70, assuming shooting skill is equal of course.

The only thing that 6mm's lack in the Long Range department are lack of bullet energy for killing large or big game at extreme distance, and spotting our own hits is sometimes a little tougher due to the smaller bullet/less mass. Other times, spotting our own hits is easier because of less recoil.

As far as shooting paper or any kind of target practice goes.......they are truly tough to beat. Especially when cost and recoil are figured in.

 

[cppbandit]

Thanks there SBruce, that helps. So if I opt for 6mm, I think I have the option of 80 grain, 105, and 120. For long reach, is heavier better?


By the way, the 45-70 was apparently used to knock down whole herds of bison from 1000 yards away without spooking them, in the late 1800's. The open sights have a lot of adjustments, and my neighbor actually knows how to adjust them, watches the waves for wind patterns, etc. He's deadly. Good technology for that era I suppose, and with a lot of practise.


Small brag story re 6mm with 105 grain, it was the last day of the whitetail season last year, four of us had been skunked, it was getting towards sunset, we were on our way out of the woods via a narrow cutline when one guy thought he saw movement ahead, the scope showed a nice buck staring back at us from 650 yards (stepped it out later). We knew it wouldn't last long, and there would never be a second chance, we all had a tag yet, so we agreed to all shoot at once. The buck instantly dropped, and bled out very well, and each of us claimed him (162 B+C). Later that night after packing the brute out three miles we discovered only one hole, in the neck, and it matched the 6mm casing. The others had 7mm mag and 30-06 and 270. I had only allowed for 12" of vertical correction, and had planned to aim higher on the 2nd shot if he hadn't dropped instantly. I had been taking a lot of crap from the others previously, saying the 6mm was not good enough for anythign bigger than a coyote. No more. I'm not that good (yet) but must have flinched just right Was impressed with the gun though.

 

[SBruce]

cppbandit,

Yea, the 45-70 did kill alot of Buffalo. No doubt about that. In those days it was some of the best they had, but suffers terribly next to our modern day offerings.

Don't get me wrong, they are accurate, the one I have will shoot MOA real regular, but the 6mm Rem I had would shoot 1/2 MOA real regular.

The factory 45-70 ammo I shoot will blow off by about 6" for every 1 mph of wind at 500 yds, the 6mm 105 grn will blow off about 1" for every 1 mph of wind at 500 yds...............absolutely no comparison by modern standings.

A 115-120 grn bullet will take a pretty fast twist to shoot well, 105 is more common and still a good compromise between velocity and wind drift. Best for long reach is the 115 VLD's, if you've got an 8 twist or faster.

 

[cppbandit]

OK you just shot over my head a little bit there.

What is a 115 VLD ?

How do I tell if I have an 8 twist or faster?

 

[SBruce]

OK you just shot over my head a little bit there.

What is a 115 VLD ?

How do I tell if I have an 8 twist or faster?

We're kinda getting off subject and starting to hyjack this thread, so I'll PM you.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Absolutely.

The 45-70 has got a trajectory like a rainbow and the wind blows it all over the place. It's only advantage over your 30-30 is that it has more knock down power due to a heavier bullet.

If you built an accurate bolt action in 6mm Remington, you could smoke the pants off your neighbors 45-70, assuming shooting skill is equal of course.

The only thing that 6mm's lack in the Long Range department are lack of bullet energy for killing large or big game at extreme distance, and spotting our own hits is sometimes a little tougher due to the smaller bullet/less mass. Other times, spotting our own hits is easier because of less recoil.

As far as shooting paper or any kind of target practice goes.......they are truly tough to beat. Especially when cost and recoil are figured in.

you guys ought to see the folks shoot 1000 yards targets with black powder down at Friendship IN! All shots are off hand, and you'd be stunned at how well they shoot down there. The 45-70 and 40-65 are normally the top dogs there.
gary

 

[SBruce]

you guys ought to see the folks shoot 1000 yards targets with black powder down at Friendship IN! All shots are off hand, and you'd be stunned at how well they shoot down there. The 45-70 and 40-65 are normally the top dogs there.
gary

I have seen some of that shooting, and yes it is amazing how well those guys do with antique guns and loads.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I have seen some of that shooting, and yes it is amazing how well those guys do with antique guns and loads.

Most guys that are shooting BPMC stuff are using Sharps or Pedersoli rifles rifles of new manufacture. But there are also regular muzzel loaders doing similar stuff. I know two guys that will shoot real Whitworths on the 1000 yard range, and the groups are astounding to say the least. Those Whitworths are probably the most accurate front loaders ever built to this very day, and really too valuble to be shooting. But they only do it a couple times a year. ( a CSA sniper took out Gen. Sedgwick at 850 yards with a shot from a tree)
gary

 

[dragman]

I would need to see some videos of that. Half of one inch at 500 yds? Consistently? Not a fluke? Four guns "a perfect hole at 1000 yds"? Come on now.

Could you have meant half a minute accuracy at 500yds?

sorry the computer got 0 happy. that is 100 yards. But yes the 284 will shoot 1/2" @ 500 yards now conditions have to be perfect but the gun will do it.

 

[Trickymissfit]

sorry the computer got 0 happy. that is 100 yards. But yes the 284 will shoot 1/2" @ 500 yards now conditions have to be perfect but the gun will do it.

you do realize that a 1/2" group at 500 yards divides down to about .050" at 100 yards? Actually much tighter than that when you take in the other factors.
gary