Necessary precision to kill something

[biednick]

The record heavy gun 30 shot aggregate is 2.0057", or .33 MOA. So if you are doing better than that, you need to start collecting some ribbons and trophies.

I love comparing internet claims with IBS records. It's wild how many people can outshoot heavy gun records with their hunting rifles.

 

[Huntnful]

Most hunters, have never shot enough to really learn to shoot to the potential of even a one MOA capable gun system, and I put myself in this category for much of my 60+ year hunting career. I am a US Distinguished Rifleman and have had the privilege of leading the Florida State High Power rifle team for enough years to see what it took for a beginning shooter to master a rifle. It took an average around 6,000 rounds with quality feedback to achieve High Master. How many hunters do you think have mastered their rifle?
Learning to read the wind was one of the requirements and that was under more or less ideal conditions of a range which most, but not all, were relatively flat with a wind value that was constant across the full distance of the range.
For EIC or Leg matches, no sighters are allowed and when traveling to distant shooting ranges with different environmental conditions, even the best of the best would some times shoot a nine or eight at 600 yards on the first shot. For those of you unfamiliar with high power targets, an eight would be a miss by 9"-12". And I have seen national Champions do this.
Mountain hunting conditions are far more difficult than range conditions yet in spite of this I have personally managed to take many head of big game at long range. Some I know were just plain old good luck in that shooting errors were in my favor.
As an example I shot a Stone's sheep in British Columbia at long range with my 6.5 STW and misjudged the wind enough to hit the sheep just in front of the hip. But for some strange reason the bullet deflected on this sheep that was standing broadside and deflected enough that it exited through the off shoulder and resulted in a quick kill. It easily could have been an inhumane shot.
That Stone's sheep was more than 20 years ago and completed my grand slam. But now I know a lot more about long range shooting than I did then, and have much more capable equipment than I did then, but the distances and conditions I feel comfortable taking a shot on big game has reduced by several hundred yards. Just sharing my journey and learning on long range hunting, take it for what it's worth.

Love the realistic first person information!!

 

[wasskeet]

Here is what a hunting rifle (typical hunting stock & #5 fluted barrel) in 6.5 Creedmoor has done on good days at 600 & 1000 yds. Would probably do better with a better operator. Anyway, on difficult days I have struggled to keep it on the paper and not get a DQ.

 

[Huntnful]

Standard hunting rifle with #5 fluted barrel also. Random day at the range. Some wind, but nothing crazy. I was shooting to true the drops up, but holding about .5 MOA of vertical, and .75 MOA in the horizontal category.

 

[wasskeet]

I had 10 MOA dialed in earlier this year at a match - much larger groups.

 

[Mike Matteson]

So which animals need less precision and which animals need more precision?…
Statistics given in the podcast reveal that inherent precision of the rifle system is less a factor than the shooter and his ability to assess the conditions and correct for them…

That's true to a point. Accuratic play a major part in hitting your target. Knowing on how to place that shot is the other part. You need both to do the job right. Not just one or the other.

 

[wasskeet]

Standard hunting rifle with #5 fluted barrel also. Random day at the range. Some wind, but nothing crazy. I was shooting to true the drops up, but holding about .5 MOA of vertical, and .75 MOA in the horizontal category.

Very nice! And that has enough to do some damage at that range!

 

[Bravo 4]

Statistics: 60% of the time, they work every time!
I agree that most guys (a very large majority) overestimate their abilities by a large margin, but if you listen to some of the (let's call them) naysayers we shouldn't be able to reliably hit anything past about 400 yards. However here we sit with guys doing it daily.
I used to tell Snipers and now emphasize it to new LR shooters in class, the hardest thing to teach someone is when not to pull the trigger. Test your limits on the range so you know your limits in the field.

 

[3800fps]

That's true to a point. Accuratic play a major part in hitting your target. Knowing on how to place that shot is the other part. You need both to do the job right. Not just one or the other.

Exactly…(I thought we all were discussing the content of a particular podcast)
But apparently a larger target is a reason to attempt a longer shot…but as stated in the podcast 3 times more precision only results in a 3% increase in the number of hits…the main conclusion being that the shooter's assessment of the conditions is more important than more precision in the equipment or larger targets.

 

[Nobody]

Shooting in wind requires magical powers beyond my skill level. I am a weakling because I do not shoot in wind and I admit it.

Though I have successfully shot out to a measured 1000yds behold there was no wind.

 

[Nobody]

View attachment 553192
Standard hunting rifle with #5 fluted barrel also. Random day at the range. Some wind, but nothing crazy. I was shooting to true the drops up, but holding about .5 MOA of vertical, and .75 MOA in the horizontal category.

What was the target size? Rifle caliber? How many shots versus how many hits?

 

[Beluebow]

I love comparing internet claims with IBS records. It's wild how many people can outshoot heavy gun records with their hunting rifles.

For those that require the 20-30 shot strings before it's relevant, here ya go......This is the current Fclass national record at 1000yrds (shot in 2018)......that is 22 consecutive shots in a 5" circle, in the rain. Records are records because they are one offs and generally not repeatable.....I would call that a true 1/2moa rifle.

 

[Huntnful]

For those that require the 20-30 shot strings before it's relevant, here ya go......This is the current Fclass national record at 1000yrds (shot in 2018)......that is 22 consecutive shots in a 5" circle, in the rain. Records are records because they are one offs and generally not repeatable.....I would call that a true 1/2moa rifle.

View attachment 553248

Oh there is definitely 1/2 MOA rifles. Just not hunting rifles, in various field conditions lol. But 20lb guns with $2000 rests on a concrete slab. Absolutely.

 

[biednick]

For those that require the 20-30 shot strings before it's relevant, here ya go......This is the current Fclass national record at 1000yrds (shot in 2018)......that is 22 consecutive shots in a 5" circle, in the rain. Records are records because they are one offs and generally not repeatable.....I would call that a true 1/2moa rifle.

View attachment 553248

There's absolutely some true 1/2 MOA rifles out there. They're purpose built target rifles designed to be shot off extremely stable rests with no regard for anything other than precision. I sure wouldn't want to lug an F class setup around a mountain range chasing elk.