My thoughts on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types.

[fordy]

As promised
Here's a couple I found for the re SF / twist discussion

 

[FEENIX]

Gday petey308/ feenix & anyone else that is interested
The way I've learnt to "act " is yes I do hold back some info
This is for a few reasons

1st & most applicable: morals !!! For me I won't divulge what I no about a particular brand or person when I've been given insight into that particular brand or person
its being true to my word & please don't assume this is hammers only

2 nd you try running on 2 to 4 hrs sleep a day as that's what my life is @ the moment

3rd part
I need to see what part you are upto as if I get to far ahead you will not understand the journey in making the claims I do & I suppose that leads us to another part & that's credibility yes I've been questioned heaps on that & for the reasons Gltaylor said is correct but let's clear this up & I'll still hold back

I've noticed petey308 you quoted 9k of animals from you & other individuals as a data base

I don't put numbers up or out as most people call BS ( I call it wank factor) like I'm sure happened on H.T when I joined up due to the questions I was asked but little by little I let people in & the truth slowly becomes apparent

Numbers na I won't put them up but let's go back to that 9 k
I've got that covered many many times over & I've got mates that have me covered easily yet their not anal on searching on how /why a projectile kills like me

I don't even like this post now as it's just gone to wank factor elite but I'll move on & do what I said I would do

I found my Barnes pill out of my ginger

I'll post that up shortly as my bitching is done
Take me as you like but please I'm no expert or guru
Cheers

I can relate with #2; 3-4 hours of sleep/day is normal for me all my life and I am fully operational.

 

[GLTaylor]

Not just about Hammers either, but if we continue to discuss monos and performance, metallurgy needs to come out. That Is probably one of the primary differences and why Hammers do such incredible damage. The photos put up of the goat lungs showing a pencil through wound (small) from Nathan Foster's work are not typical of hammer damage. Hammers typically liquify lungs/heart/liver or do severe damage. It is common for a deer to "slosh" when you pick one up to load it in the cart.
The metallurgy is proprietary, so I can't go there even if I knew exactly what it is. The PDR bands (patented) are another big plus. Shedding petals (which become projectiles) and a FLAT meplat on the bullet shank during penetration gives deep penetration to enhance/add to the damage done during bullet upset. Here's a common lung damage photo.

 

[xsn10s]

I can relate with #2; 3-4 hours of sleep/day is normal for me all my life and I am fully operational.

Been that way for me for years. Or being woke up two or three times a night. Still operational, but not fun.

 

[Hard rock]

You are exactly correct but I don't want to get into with them about it as they will never wrap their heads around it so I'm gonna bow out

BC is figured@ 3000 FPS and changes many times during flight time, I appreciate all of your work but I'm out of this one as we are headed down the same road as always, Again no offense intended

Hey Bean would appreciate a feed back on a question I'm pretty sure I'm on the same page about holding hair correct me if I'm wrong guestion if your shooting at a deer at 500 yds and think of your hold as if it were 100 yds 4 moa or 1 mil 3.7 in high that would be your 20 in bullet drop for a center shoulder hit at 500 yds holding too the top of spine or shoulder at that distance rather than dialing 4 moa or 1 mil don't blame you for bowing out

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Hey Bean would appreciate a feed back on a question I'm pretty sure I'm on the same page about holding hair correct me if I'm wrong guestion if your shooting at a deer at 500 yds and think of your hold as if it were 100 yds 4 moa or 1 mil 3.7 in high that would be your 20 in bullet drop for a center shoulder hit at 500 yds holding too the top of spine or shoulder at that distance rather than dialing 4 moa or 1 mil don't blame you for bowing out

He stated 100 yard zero. In order to be 1mil high at 100 yards he'd have to zero at 450 yards. With a 450 yard zero your dropping 7.2ish inches at 500 which would mean you'd have to aim for the top of the back still at 500. At close range you'd have to aim alittle low

 

[Hard rock]

Yea

Gday petey308/ feenix & anyone else that is interested
The way I've learnt to "act " is yes I do hold back some info
This is for a few reasons

1st & most applicable: morals !!! For me I won't divulge what I no about a particular brand or person when I've been given insight into that particular brand or person
its being true to my word & please don't assume this is hammers only

2 nd you try running on 2 to 4 hrs sleep a day as that's what my life is @ the moment

3rd part
I need to see what part you are upto as if I get to far ahead you will not understand the journey in making the claims I do & I suppose that leads us to another part & that's credibility yes I've been questioned heaps on that & for the reasons Gltaylor said is correct but let's clear this up & I'll still hold back

I've noticed petey308 you quoted 9k of animals from you & other individuals as a data base

I don't put numbers up or out as most people call BS ( I call it wank factor) like I'm sure happened on H.T when I joined up due to the questions I was asked but little by little I let people in & the truth slowly becomes apparent

Numbers na I won't put them up but let's go back to that 9 k
I've got that covered many many times over & I've got mates that have me covered easily yet their not anal on searching on how /why a projectile kills like me

I don't even like this post now as it's just gone to wank factor elite but I'll move on & do what I said I would do

I found my Barnes pill out of my ginger

I'll post that up shortly as my bitching is done
Take me as you like but please I'm no expert or guru
Cheers

It's definitely gone over the top time too get back too the basics

 

[FEENIX]

 

[Canhunter35]

I'm not sure forum threads are akin to meetings that should stay on topic, vs, a conversation that evolves, I always view them as a conversation, and genuine new ideas may come about as it drifts away from the original topic.
But concerning monos, I've shot some deer with 90gr gmx out of a 257wby, the factory ammo was very accurate, I could not replicate the accuracy until I crimped my ammo, once I did that they seemed to make the jump to the lands better or something.
On terminal performance, I shot two deer, both behind the crease, one really close the other 200yds or so, both jumped, the close one humped up and stood still so I shot him again dropping him, the other jumped and ran for 50-60 yards before dropping, I recall catching a piece of both their hearts in the shots.
In that rifle I switched to 115 ballistic tips and they would smash a deer flat, the only time I was dissatisfied with their performance, I shot a really big bodied old mule deer close in the chest and he ran a 100yds before dropping dead, but adrenaline is an amazing thing and he'd probably have done that with most bullets. This is where long range really shines, the are calm, muscles are relaxed, thump bullet hits them and often they just drop

 

[Petey308]

Been that way for me for years. Or being woke up two or three times a night. Still operational, but not fun.

I've been in the military for over 17 years now, on many deployments, been all over the world, etc. I am definitely well versed at operating on very little sleep as well lol. I'm only 35 too, so lots of experience and knowledge yet to gain, I hope.

 

[xsn10s]

I've been in the military for over 17 years now, on many deployments, been all over the world, etc. I am definitely well versed at operating on very little sleep as well lol. I'm only 35 too, so lots of experience and knowledge yet to gain, I hope.

Thank you for your service! I had that happen early on in the Army. I was recalled but never deployed. It's bled over to civilian life. No biggie I'm used to it. but a full nights sleep would be welcomed as I'm much older than you lol. Be safe.

 

[Petey308]

Not just about Hammers either, but if we continue to discuss monos and performance, metallurgy needs to come out. That Is probably one of the primary differences and why Hammers do such incredible damage. The photos put up of the goat lungs showing a pencil through wound (small) from Nathan Foster's work are not typical of hammer damage. Hammers typically liquify lungs/heart/liver or do severe damage. It is common for a deer to "slosh" when you pick one up to load it in the cart.
The metallurgy is proprietary, so I can't go there even if I knew exactly what it is. The PDR bands (patented) are another big plus. Shedding petals (which become projectiles) and a FLAT meplat on the bullet shank during penetration gives deep penetration to enhance/add to the damage done during bullet upset. Here's a common lung damage photo.View attachment 309752

I used Barnes, GMX, E-tip, LeHigh, DRT, etc for quite some time and even with those I experienced lots of liquified organs. Those photos from Nathan Foster of the goat lungs are of certain solid copper bullets that impacted at a lower velocity. Those aren't pictures of them used within their limits. The point continued to be stressed is that solids do work. Please show me a quote where it was said they don't work and only ever create narrow and minimal wounding. They must be used within their own limitations. They TYPICALLY have a higher minimum impact velocity for best results. I'd say everyone discussing Hammmers here has confirmed that multiple times talking about their very fast loads and high SG. So thank you for the confirmation there. The name they gave their drive bands and perhaps the exact way they make them is patented, but the technology is not and the same end result has been and is used on other solids.

This is one example I have of my own experience with a Barnes. This was a 25cal 80gr TTSX impacting around 2290fps. This is what's left of the left and right lungs, respectively:

The aorta was also severed and the deer ran about 40 yards and expired. I've had several other experiences like this with solids, personally. I have never said they don't work or don't work well when used within their limits. They do, and they have even for me.

 

[Petey308]

Thank you for your service! I had that happen early on in the Army. I was recalled but never deployed. It's bled over to civilian life. No biggie I'm used to it. but a full nights sleep would be welcomed as I'm much older than you lol. Be safe.

I'm sure I'm on the younger side here lol. I know there's much wisdom I can soak in here, and I appreciate it!

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

I like the all copper bullets generally speaking. But have advocated for years to use light for caliber bullets and push them fast for proper expansion. I love the idea of being able to put a general velocity of 2200 ft./s to max effective range of these bullets. If your hunting beyond that range with regularity then a conventional lead core constructed bullet is probably you best bet.
Spot on info petey308 thanks for the info