My thoughts on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types.

[Petey308]

***Posted prematurely. Edited accordingly.

 

[orkan]

Someone should send me some .22cal hammers that can stabilize in an 8 or 7 twist (I have both)... I'd like to see if they can shoot small enough in my 22 creeds to work for me.

Heck, send me a barrel worth for my 22BRA so I can test to see if they are lethal enough on prairie dogs. I'll put this discussion to bed once and for all. lol

All jokes aside, traditional bullets from berger and sierra have been able to accomplish everything I could ask. They shoot tiny, and crush animals.



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[Petey308]

I like the all copper bullets generally speaking. But have advocated for years to use light for caliber bullets and push them fast for proper expansion. I love the idea of being able to put a general velocity of 2200 ft./s to max effective range of these bullets. If your hunting beyond that range with regularity then a conventional lead core constructed bullet is probably you best bet.
Spot on info petey308 thanks for the info

My pleasure, and I agree with your assessment. Obviously solids can still be used with success below they mark, but in my experience and research, that's the best rule of thumb I've seen to go with for more reliable results. You're taking much more of a risk typically below that point. Even above that with some can be a risk.

Good luck out there!

 

[fordy]

I used Barnes, GMX, E-tip, LeHigh, DRT, etc for quite some time and even with those I experienced lots of liquified organs. Those photos from Nathan Foster of the goat lungs are of certain solid copper bullets that impacted at a lower velocity. Those aren't pictures of them used within their limits. The point continued to be stressed is that solids do work.

It's not about any projectile just working it finding the sweet spot for a particular person for their range/animal & some projectiles work better than others frangible or mono I don't care
What's seldom taken into account is the variance between the 2 different types
Once again I'll go back to the ball & cube with some 1000 FPS difference on impact
Now what's the difference in the pond ?
or if you don't want to talk cube let's take this just back to the frangible and 2 impacts

What is the quicker killer ones average ? one @ 2400 or 1400 with your tmk

Remember the quote I referred to ea 500 FPS = a doubling of the psi
Does this not fit in with the scenario of the 2400/1400

 

[FEENIX]

I like the all copper bullets generally speaking. But have advocated for years to use light for caliber bullets and push them fast for proper expansion. I love the idea of being able to put a general velocity of 2200 ft./s to max effective range of these bullets. If your hunting beyond that range with regularity then a conventional lead core constructed bullet is probably you best bet.
Spot on info petey308 thanks for the info

IIRC, GSC bullets have been advocating the same with their HV bullets since the early 1990s.

 

[Petey308]

It's not about any projectile just working it finding the sweet spot for a particular person for their range/animal & some projectiles work better than others frangible or mono I don't care
What's seldom taken into account is the variance between the 2 different types
Once again I'll go back to the ball & cube with some 1000 FPS difference on impact
Now what's the difference in the pond ?
or if you don't want to talk cube let's take this just back to the frangible and 2 impacts

What is the quicker killer ones average ? one @ 2400 or 1400 with your tmk

Remember the quote I referred to ea 500 FPS = a doubling of the psi
Does this not fit in with the scenario of the 2400/1400

Yes, I feel I've tried to make that clear that it's different strokes for different folks. We all have our own personal preferences, which is great. The post is titled "My THOUGHTS on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types". This is not my conclusion on anything. I'm not lumping all solids together either, as in saying all perform the same. If you got that impression, perhaps I need to tweak my write-up in the future.

And the ball and cube was simply an analogy and not a perfect one. It was simply to get the idea in the reader's head.

There are always a multitude of variables at play so taking in absolutes is futile, and I've tried to make that clear. So to answer which is a quicker killer, even on average, is hard to say for sure. I've seen so many drops at 700, 800, 900, and further yard shots, as well as much closer, and then conversely many not drop at close and far ranges. It depends on the animal, the shot placement, and other factors. It is my experience though that a well-constructed cup and core bullet, selected and placed properly, does work much better in that broad range of impact velocity.

 

[Hard rock]

Yes, I feel I've tried to make that clear that it's different strokes for different folks. We all have our own personal preferences, which is great. The post is titled "My THOUGHTS on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types". This is not my conclusion on anything. I'm not lumping all solids together either, as in saying all perform the same. If you got that impression, perhaps I need to tweak my write-up in the future.

And the ball and cube was simply an analogy and not a perfect one. It was simply to get the idea in the reader's head.

There are always a multitude of variables at play so taking in absolutes is futile, and I've tried to make that clear. So to answer which is a quicker killer, even on average, is hard to say for sure. I've seen so many drops at 700, 800, 900, and further yard shots, as well as much closer, and then conversely many not drop at close and far ranges. It depends on the animal, the shot placement, and other factors. It is my experience though that a well-constructed cup and core bullet, selected and placed properly, does work much better in that broad range of impact velocity.

If we only had one bullet too choose from the Nosler Partition would get it done you could end it there but there is always a quest for something better and that too my preference is the Hammer but not being closed minded too something better in my future until you try the Hammer bullet you can analyze till the well freezes they just don't line up the same as any other bullet I've ever shot take it for what it's worth and that's a good thing not lining up

 

[Petey308]

 

[FEENIX]

 

[Canhunter35]

It's not about any projectile just working it finding the sweet spot for a particular person for their range/animal & some projectiles work better than others frangible or mono I don't care
What's seldom taken into account is the variance between the 2 different types
Once again I'll go back to the ball & cube with some 1000 FPS difference on impact
Now what's the difference in the pond ?
or if you don't want to talk cube let's take this just back to the frangible and 2 impacts

What is the quicker killer ones average ? one @ 2400 or 1400 with your tmk

Remember the quote I referred to ea 500 FPS = a doubling of the psi
Does this not fit in with the scenario of the 2400/1400

Often in my experience, longer shots= slower velocity drop the animal where it's standing vs point blank/adrenaline surge. So dealing with game, there's a major difference not just in shot placement but all effects upon the game. Last year I shot a cow elk at 590yds, one cow had already been shot out of the group at 200yards, she ran about 90yds and flopped over shot through both lungs, point I'm making, when they're unaware of your presence, dramatically increases your chance of a drt

 

[Petey308]

Often in my experience, longer shots= slower velocity drop the animal where it's standing vs point blank/adrenaline surge. So dealing with game, there's a major difference not just in shot placement but all effects upon the game. Last year I shot a cow elk at 590yds, one cow had already been shot out of the group at 200yards, she ran about 90yds and flopped over shot through both lungs, point I'm making, when they're unaware of your presence, dramatically increases your chance of a drt

My experience reflects this.

 

[Pdvdh]

The percentage of game animals killed by hunters past 850yds is miniscule, IMO.

And is hugely reflected in the experiences being shared in this thread. The trend of the hunter kill experiences in this thread is predominantly close range. Which I consider closer than ~500yds.

Hunters can set up to shoot game farther, and do so successfully. But my guess is less than 5% of large game is killed past 850yds, across all hunters.

Even hunters that set up to shoot +1000yds likely kill less than 25% of their game past ~850yds.

I keep this in mind when reviewing the experiences of others in this thread, and not many posted experiences are surprising. Most of the experiences involve sufficient impact velocity for great bullet performance.

I could be wrong...

 

[Petey308]

Just to clarify some of this: I mentioned in the original post that I'm talking about homogenous, monolithic, solid copper, etc bullets of the variety with cavities and and means to produce expansion. When I say "solid copper", like in the title of this thread, or "solids" in any subsequent comment, I simply mean made of only copper and not having a separate core. I don't mean a complete chunk of solid copper without a cavity or anything similar. I just wanted to clarify that.

 

[Hard rock]

Your so right