My thoughts on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types.

[6.5x300 WBY]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you can do the same with cup and core bullets too.

If i am understanding you both. But not to the same degree as a solid. Drop down in weight with a solid no biggie can't run them fast enough. Cup n core you lose valuable SD for penetration and become much more fragile. Go from a 220 gr whatever to a 110/120gr. They are not the same animal being able to do the same job. IMHO.

I think the solids really have the potential to extend a cartridges usefulness. For instance, let's say I want to run a fast twist to stabilize long for caliber but I can still shoot the smaller solids for less recoil. It will be interesting to see what the industry trend is in the next few years

I tend to agree..

 

[RH300UM]

Here's my personal experiences with the hammers.
I have been using them for 3+ years.
I am VERY impressed with the terminal ballistics on game.
I use them in a few rifles.
My go to hunting rig is a RBROS rifle
Chambered I the 338 RBH (338 nm improved). 24 inch proof 9.4 twist barrel.
Weight is 10.2 pounds hunt ready.
Pushing a 260 Hammer Hunter @ 3042 fps
It now has 3 elk and 2 deer taken.
Now for my uncontrolled results
1- elk 850 yards. Quartering to shot. Bullet hit base of the neck on elks right side. Bullet traveled 30+ inches and exited on the left side. Bull dropped. DRT
2- elk 450 yards. Quartering to shot. Bullet hit at the base of the neck on bulls right side Traveled 36 inches +or- a inch. Bull dropped. DRT
3- elk 630 yards. 30 degree incline. Quartering to shot. Bullet hit at the base of the neck on the bulls right side. Traveled to the off shoulder and exited. Bull dropped. DRT
4- mule deer 480 yards. Bedded. Hard quartering to shot. Bullet entered base of the neck. Traveled through to off side back leg/hip and exited. Deer stood up and tipped over in2-3 seconds
5- mule deer 680 yards. Feeding broadside. Bullet hit behind the shoulder and exited off side. DRT

Impact velocities range from around 2500 to 2050 fps.

 

[Petey308]

If i am understanding you both. But not to the same degree as a solid. Drop down in weight with a solid no biggie can't run them fast enough. Cup n core you lose valuable SD for penetration and become much more fragile. Go from a 220 gr whatever to a 110/120gr. They are not the same animal being able to do the same job. IMHO.

I tend to agree..

You don't need such a high rate of twist though with cup and core to have excellent performance. What it sounds like by getting a barrel with a high rate of twist and high MV is just extra steps and potential expense.

 

[ButterBean]

I noticed when I shot the 90 ah's out of the 25-06 at 540 yards, the drop was less than expected. This could be the same discrepancy.

You are exactly correct but I don't want to get into with them about it as they will never wrap their heads around it so I'm gonna bow out

Math is math. Retained velocity based on the particular bullet's BC and MV will determine specific drop for a load, and it'll change depending on the bullet and velocity, but that's not the point. With his load, he doesn't have a lot of drop overall at 500 yards, but it's still 20" nonetheless.

BC is figured@ 3000 FPS and changes many times during flight time, I appreciate all of your work but I'm out of this one as we are headed down the same road as always, Again no offense intended

 

[Chico guy]

Pushing a 260 Hammer Hunter @ 3042 fps

**** deadly load. I'm betting on DRT in most situations.

 

[Petey308]

What if Butterbean was to zero at 250 yards? Where does that put a hold over on a deer at 500?

Kris

Then it would be 16.8" of drop at 500 yards. Most deer are 14"-18".

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

You are exactly correct but I don't want to get into with them about it as they will never wrap their heads around it so I'm gonna bow out

BC is figured@ 3000 FPS and changes many times during flight time, I appreciate all of your work but I'm out of this one as we are headed down the same road as always, Again no offense intended

No its not a BC issue. You said you drop 1mil at 500 yards according to the numbers which is correct according to the numbers you provided.. But you also state that with a 1 mil hold overputs your crosshairs on top of a 16in plate which would equate to 8in of drop at 500 yards which isn't 1 mil of drop and more like .4 mils of drop at 500. That doesn't add up at all.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Even if I crank the BC up to .999 you still don't even come close to 8in of drop at 500 yards. I think we can all safely assume bean isn't shooting 500 yards or his plate his larger than 16in IF he's hitting dead center. Or he's not zeroed at 100 yards

 

[Petey308]

You are exactly correct but I don't want to get into with them about it as they will never wrap their heads around it so I'm gonna bow out

BC is figured@ 3000 FPS and changes many times during flight time, I appreciate all of your work but I'm out of this one as we are headed down the same road as always, Again no offense intended

I've never meant any offense either and have and continue to stay civil and professional. I just felt making a correction on the math was warranted as it could result in a miss or wounded animal. Yes, BC changes to a degree as the bullet flies, but if it was to the degree you're stating, all shots beyond even 500 yards would be too hard to predict and get good hits. Once you true your BC and velocities you will be good to go.

I hate to see you go. I will admit the main point of bullet construction and performance got taken away a bit there by discussing external ballistics, but I don't see that as a reason to leave this thread. That's up to you though. I hope it's not simply because you felt singled out. I surely didn't mean for that. Again, I was only trying to correct the math and ensure good information is being stated is all.

I feel I have a pretty good head in my shoulders and can wrap my head around quite a bit.

Either way, I enjoyed the discussion. Thank you.

 

[nealm66]

Another possibility, and I've made this mistake, is shooting angle. Add that to a 200 yard zero and I'm not sure where the math puts it but it really screwed with me trying to confirm info for a cds dial for a guy once. Was a 300 weatherby which didn't help any either

 

[RH300UM]

More input on my Hammer experiences
Rifle is a RBros rifle
Chambered in 375 RBH
22 inch proof 12 twist barrel
Weight is 8.7 pounds hunt ready
Pushing a 270 grain shock hammer @ 3000 fps
I've only put 2 bullets into game. It's my guide rifle.
1- caribou. 130 yards. Broadside. Already wounded. Hunter out of ammunition in his rifle. My shot entered behind the shoulder exited off side. Caribou dropped. Got on his feet ad tipped over. Shot put a big hole through its heart
2- moose. 20 yards. Charging. Wounded by hunter. Bullet hit base of the neck traveled to back hip. DRT.

 

[FEENIX]

As I previously noted ...

... if we all do our part in keeping it conducive to information and experience sharing, we will all benefit from it.

Like @Petey308 noted, I, too, enjoyed the discussion. "If" we keep an open mind, we can alleviate one of the barriers of learning. As a continuous learner, I enjoy excellent open and two-way communication/dialogue.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[Petey308]

Another possibility, and I've made this mistake, is shooting angle. Add that to a 200 yard zero and I'm not sure where the math puts it but it really screwed with me trying to confirm info for a cds dial for a guy once. Was a 300 weatherby which didn't help any either

Right. There's a lot that goes into external ballistics. It all adds up.

 

[Petey308]

More input on my Hammer experiences
Rifle is a RBros rifle
Chambered in 375 RBH
22 inch proof 12 twist barrel
Weight is 8.7 pounds hunt ready
Pushing a 270 grain shock hammer @ 3000 fps
I've only put 2 bullets into game. It's my guide rifle.
1- caribou. 130 yards. Broadside. Already wounded. Hunter out of ammunition in his rifle. My shot entered behind the shoulder exited off side. Caribou dropped. Got on his feet ad tipped over. Shot put a big hole through its heart
2- moose. 20 yards. Charging. Wounded by hunter. Bullet hit base of the neck traveled to back hip. DRT.

Congrats on what sounds like some great hunts.

One thing I wanted to note is shot placement is always extremely important. I will say that in your examples, shot placement was great and a huge reason for the results you got. That, matched with the bullet obviously. I wouldn't want an illusion to be created though that the bullet alone did all the magic. In all of the examples but one, if I'm correct in thinking, were shots into the base of the neck with quartering-to shots. So the bullet went right into the brachial plexus and shut down the CNS, dropping them, then the bullet went straight through all the vitals after that. If I'm honest, I'd certainly hope it did well with those shot placements lol

Either way, it's great feedback and I will be sure to put it in my notes. Thank you for sharing!