Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[memtb]

And yet Natives use the .223 for tons of game harvesting including bears. Go figure.

They accept loss of life a bit differently than we do! Pretty much part of their genetic makeup. Thousands of years of living as they do…..death is more accepted!


Also, most guides will be involved in the killing of far more bears in a year, than most any one Inuit!

Plus the guide is often guiding a "nimrod" that should've stayed on the golf course or stayed with video games! The guide's reputation and income is dependent upon the survival of his/her clients!

A dead client remains forever on his résumé! Oh, he just may, I reiterate " may", want to survive to hunt another day!

The guide that has chosen to use small caliber cartridges as a client back-up ……has been reading far too much LRH! memtb

 

[xsn10s]

I read maybe in the 1990's that many used the AR15 for bear protection up North. I thought it was a bit light but kept an open mind to it. And then this story pops up. It sounds like the author is well qualified to speak on the subject. https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/ar...ainst-charging-polar-bear-2008/#axzz8KOPLakKP

 

[436]

I read maybe in the 1990's that many used the AR15 for bear protection up North. I thought it was a bit light but kept an open mind to it. And then this story pops up. It sounds like the author is well qualified to speak on the subject. https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/ar...ainst-charging-polar-bear-2008/#axzz8KOPLakKP

Back around the late '60s and '70s the Alaska Inuit hunters, loved anything in a .223 Rem caliber later 5.56x45mm for just about everything including Polar... before that many hunters used the .222 Remington... At one point I remember a gunsmith who was shipping up 5.56x45mm NATO to a trading post, he said it was like gold up there, and the Inuit loved the M193 Ball because of its killing power... on everything but Whale. From what I've read and understand, back in that time frame most of the hunters were using bolt action rifles in .223 Rem, yeah I know... and shooting 5.56x45mmm NATO in them, later came the AR15s. just thoughts from the day... Cheers... Oh! don't get me wrong I'm not calling the 5.56x45mm a Bear, Moose, or Elk rifle, but it will kill them, that's pretty much a fact. You might recall hunters using the .22 Hi-Power in Savage Mod 99s in India for Tigers. You'd be looking at a 70gr bullet at around 2800 fps, "Not me I wouldn't" ... but someone did.
I should have added, that the Inuit hunter on the ice hunt with their sled dogs, which keeps old White Death occupied so they can make that clean headshot on the Bear... just trying to put the comment in perspective.

 

[BigNate]

They accept loss of life a bit differently than we do! Pretty much part of their genetic makeup. Thousands of years of living as they do…..death is more accepted!


Also, most guides will be involved in the killing of far more bears in a year, than most any one Inuit!

Plus the guide is often guiding a "nimrod" that should've stayed on the golf course or stayed with video games! The guide's reputation and income is dependent upon the survival of his/her clients!

A dead client remains forever on his résumé! Oh, he just may, I reiterate " may", want to survive to hunt another day!

The guide that has chosen to use small caliber cartridges as a client back-up ……has been reading far too much LRH! memtb

So you believe the Inuit are willing to die rather than choose differently? What are the statistics of them dying from bears? Is it any different than the idiot white people? I'll bet its far less.

The "nimrod" comment is pointless. They spend money to be taken hunting, and most can't shoot well regardless. Funny enough though, they also usually show up for their hunts with the latest new magnum cartridge, the coolest boutique hunting clothes, and more brand new gear they don't know how to use. In all actuality, they'd likely be more successful with a cartridge that doesn't scare them, and is loaded with a bullet that performs well.

A guide who is a gun guy is kind of rare. Likely if the were, they'd choose an AR15 with a red dot and 77gr TMKs for defense!

 

[memtb]

So you believe the Inuit are willing to die rather than choose differently

Not willing…….just better accept it as part of life!

A guide who is a gun guy is kind of rare. Likely if the were, they'd choose an AR15 with a red dot and 77gr TMKs for defense!

These two sent somewhat cancel each other out: the guide not being a gun guy, picks a red dot AR and load it with 77 TMK's. Many gun guys have little knowledge of the 77 TMK's……except those enjoying the smaller calibers!

Though, that will fit nicely into the "spray and pray" crowd!

The nimrod comment, while may appear pointless……is some self-explanatory! You merely clarified it a bit! memtb

 

[sp6x6]

The natives loose a lot of game also, seen footage of them in action

 

[Beluebow]

I'd suspect the 223/77gr combo probably isn't for the average hunter/shooter. I'd look at it as a surgeons tool and not Thors hammer. To each their own.

 

[memtb]

I'd suspect the 223/77gr combo probably isn't for the average hunter/shooter. I'd look at it as a surgeons tool and not Thors hammer. To each their own.

That would be a surgeon that knows his and his tool's limitations……not a narcissist convinced of his underwhelming skillset! memtb

 

[xsn10s]

Like memtb himself said. the .223/ 77 TMK and 300 WM 180 gr TTSX wound looked like his 308 Win 150 gr Corelok wound.

 

[memtb]

Like memtb himself said. the .223/ 77 TMK and 300 WM 180 gr TTSX wound looked like his 308 Win 150 gr Corelok wound.

Yep, the .308 Win. "cup and core" wound was relatively shallow with a lot of tissue damage. I strongly suspect that the 300 WM 180 TTSX was not studied to the end of it's path.

This will elude some, as it's intentionally exaggerated for a mental image.
Comparing a 77gr TMK to a 180 TTSX is much like comparing the shallow wound of a fragmentation grenade to the total wound area of an armor piercing 88mm round. The grenade damage is highly destructive but doesn't penetrate deeply, the 88 while not highly destructive at the surface, carries it's destruction deep into the target!


Words from Sierra themselves:

While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.

If they were great for hunting…….why would Sierra "NOT" recommend their own bullet for hunting!

Though I have no proof, I suspect that we're only told of the successes ……not the abysmal failures! But, he's getting his 15 minutes of internet hunting fame! memtb

 

[xsn10s]

Yep, the .308 Win. "cup and core" wound was relatively shallow with a lot of tissue damage. I strongly suspect that the 300 WM 180 TTSX was not studied to the end of it's path.

This will elude some, as it's intentionally exaggerated for a mental image.
Comparing a 77gr TMK to a 180 TTSX is much like comparing the shallow wound of a fragmentation grenade to the total wound area of an armor piercing 88mm round. The grenade damage is highly destructive but doesn't penetrate deeply, the 88 while not highly destructive at the surface, carries it's destruction deep into the target!


Words from Sierra themselves:

While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.

If they were great for hunting…….why would Sierra "NOT" recommend their own bullet for hunting!

Though I have no proof, I suspect that we're only told of the successes ……not the abysmal failures! But, he's getting his 15 minutes of internet hunting fame! memtb

The 180 TTSX was a complete pass through as was the 77 gr TMK. The 180 TTSX was recovered and had 100 percent weight retention. Berger didn't recommend their bullets for hunting either. Right up to when they saw people taking elk with them.

 

[xsn10s]

"The cow at 150 was the biggest I've ever seen, first round blew a chunk of lung about 15 yards behind her onto the snow second farther forward destroyed the heart and she faceplanted and pushed a pile of snow about 10 feet.


The rancher did not believe a 22 cal was sufficient and really wanted me to use a bigger mag. Part of the deal for the elk permits was we would shoot a mule deer doe as well. After the 3rd or fourth doe with the 80 eld he relented and admitted the 80 was more than sufficient. Even the butcher guessed we were shooting some big boomer mag.
Our 80 eld m wounds were more violent and predictable than the 7 mag 160 trophy bonded bear claw the rancher was using and his sons 300 win/ accubond combo"

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

Anyone loaded 80 grain eldx in 1/8 223? Would they stabilize? I know those 77's are the "one and done" but these look interesting I know after market mag would be needed

rokslide.com

 

[Petey308]

why would Sierra "NOT" recommend their own bullet for hunting!

I actually live 20 minutes from Sierra. I've been there plenty, know people personally that work there, etc, etc. I can assure you that because they have a HUGE defense contract for bullets having the MatchKing nomenclature, and because they cannot use bullets advertised as expanding, they are very particular about how they do indeed advertise them and make such disclaimers. Those defense contracts make them way more money than those that would want to use such bullets for hunting that can't see between the lines and figure what is really what. This has all been confirmed by them.

Companies like Berger simply make different lines of essentially the same bullet, calling one "target" and one "hunting".

 

[436]

I'd suspect the 223/77gr combo probably isn't for the average hunter/shooter. I'd look at it as a surgeons tool and not Thors hammer. To each their own.

I have used the 77gr Sierra OTM (MK 262 Mod 1 clone) for a long time in my 5.56x45mm both in my carbines and AR rifles... it is my go-to bullet as my self-protection round. I've found them to be very accurate and have a little more punch for the aforementioned rifles, especially the carbine. There's nothing really special about it, it just works well for what it was intended for. I think "if" I was going to use a 5.56x45mm against an animal like a Bear out of an AR... I'd go with the 55gr FMJ M193 Ball for a lot of reasons that are too long to go into in such a short time. As for the 77gr OTM bullet, it's just not a game bullet in my opinion... Bullets in the 60gr/65gr to 69gr as SPBT seem much better appropriate for animals like, smallish Deer end... at acceptable hunting ranges, and no super long shots in .223 Rem or a 5.56x45mm... yeah, they can be made, but... as stated perhaps a little bigger gun for the bigger game might be better. Just my 0.2 Cheers

• 
  
  NO. 1 20" TEST BARREL
  5.56mm
  77 Gr. MK 262 MOD 1-C
  Velocity: 2750 FPS
  Energy: 1293 Ft. Lbs.