Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[Ol' Red]

I think this was his tipping point



View attachment 514889
Then you factor in you didn't take possession of your scope until October 20th. That was 39 days ago. Now, surely you have some job functions outside of time spent shooting. Secondly, you are shooting a "production" factory rifle, using factory ammunition and as far as we know, you have not taken a LR class other than with your co-workers and boss.

There are members here, not me of course, I can barely hit the toilet, with years of experience, years of range time, years spent perfecting their load data and with solid equipment specifically built for what they do and the number of those qualified members here that could pull off 20 for 20 on a 600yd beer can, well, you could probably use 1 hand maybe 2 tops.

I suck at math, excell at paying attention, useless trivia, smart *** remarks and inappropriate words often used in the most inappropriate situations, so, would one of the smart members here please extrapolate that out to MOA average please.

Daryl, if I hit 20 beer cans at 100 yards, I might be able to stagger to 200 yards. But by then I am not going to be able to hit twenty more cans and stand up. No wait, ... I read that all wrong. LOL

 

[Ucsdryder]

Cool. I couldn't care less what elk guides recommend.

Nobody said a prc couldn't kill, the point is that most people shoot lower recoiling cartridges better and more frequently (ie they are more proficient) . And when combined with bullets that provide good terminal performance, why not shoot a lower recoiling cartridge.

If you want to shoot a magnum, go for it.

I don't disagree with what you're saying and I don't disagree with the RS post, but let's ASSUME these guides have a large sample size. How do you explain that they're seeing the most non recovered game with 270 and smaller?

Here's my point…I agree about seeing impacts, cheaper ammo to practice, easier to shoot, resulting in my practice, but let's face it, most opening day hunters are sighting in their rifles the weekend before the season. This year, in TWO different Colorado seasons, I had guys trying to sight in their rifles on Friday night as it was getting dark, right outside of their camps. And watching impacts, most guys couldn't see an impact from a 22LR.

So now you're back to guys shooting small calibers, still not hitting what they're aiming at, except now you have more wind drift and less forgiving bullets.

 

[Darryle]

Daryl, if I hit 20 beer cans at 100 yards, I might be able to stagger to 200 yards. But by then I am not going to be able to hit twenty more cans and stand up. No wait, ... I read that all wrong. LOL

I hit them from about 6-8", then I stagger to bed

 

[sp6x6]

Thought this was a LR hunting, guess that's why Broz and such moved on.They along with Shawn C. weren't using .223. Feel like this is a click bait thread . Peace out

 

[memtb]

Thought this was a LR hunting, guess that's why Broz and such moved on.They along with Shawn C. weren't using .223. Feel like this is a click bait thread . Peace out

sp…..the beer can conversation does actually work well into the .223 topic. Enough "mt" beer cans…..and the .223 becomes an infallible elk, moose, bear, bison caliber!

Enough Castle Lager (popular in South Africa) and the .223 is lethal slayer of elephants! ……at long range! memtb

 

[Darryle]

Thought this was a LR hunting, guess that's why Broz and such moved on.They along with Shawn C. weren't using .223. Feel like this is a click bait thread . Peace out

Actually, if you go read the thread in it's entirety, it is more about bullet construction than diameter.

There are bullets in every caliber that either perform or they eventually disappear.

I am the first to say, that the TMK is a very capable, albeit destructive bullet, for me.

If a guy is getting 5+ opportunities at large game, a little lost meat here and there is not a bad price to pay putting the animal down and allowing it to be brought to the table.

If a guy gets 1 or 2 opportunities, like some of us here in Texas on much more diminutive Whitetail, we take the lost/damaged meat a little more seriously.

You can say what you want about the 223, but today's 223 isn't the one you heard about or learned on in grade/middle school. Twists and bullet construction play a huge role in that, every caliber for that matter. Look at the hate for the 6.5 Creedmoor, now we have 22 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor and 25 Creedmoor. Technology has advanced our sport more than any one person could have.

Technology allows me to stand on the patio, reply to this thread, monitor the temperature of my steak at the same time and from the same device.

What I find funny, it makes me giggle anyhow, we can use a much smaller weight Hammer bullet for a larger caliber and that is acceptable, but use a heavy for caliber but smaller diameter bullet and that is blasphemous.

Bullet construction is the key, that TMK kills in spades, that thread is all the evidence you need.

 

[Darryle]

Seems like not long ago, we argued that the 243 was too small.

 

[memtb]

Seems like not long ago, we argued that the 243 was too small.

And for certain tasks…..it still is! But, within it's wheelhouse, a wheelhouse now larger because of better bullets, it's a good little cartridge/caliber! memtb

 

[sp6x6]

I spent years with Steve/ hammer shooting archery.And have friends, several with multiple world records in 1000 and 2000 bench.So im in the loops 223 is not suited for a guy like me that LR ELK. My friend just put 2 rounds out of his LR rig within 6'' at 1755, 2'x3' plate.I read the whole thing, I just think its pushing the wrong tool.

 

[69precision]

My brother in law had depredation permits for his farm, but was too busy farming to use many. I shot about 150 deer for him over 2 years. Around 130 of those were with a 16.5" 223 shooting 69 sierra Match kings. The open tip ones. The furthest one went about 50 feet. Most dropped on the spot. I will say I kept distances to under 200 yards. Within that range, I felt 100% confident, which proved to be true.

 

[xsn10s]

I miss the relevance! As it would be with any firearm except perhaps a "smoothbore" musket!

That said, a heavy, very sharp arrow/broad head would likely equal or exceed the penetration of the .223! Two completely different killing methods.

In this example……it's a matter of accuracy not the killing potential of the projectile/broad head! memtb

Even you said the .223 wound looked like your 308 Win with a 150 corelok soooo.

 

[69precision]

Perfect test for an overbearing, controlling government to do. sounds like something they would do in Europe.

Sounds exactly like something that our government would do.
But actually a quarter is pretty large, should be easy to hit at 100 yards, or at 3oo yards a target 3 times that size.
I feel comfortable hitting something that size at 100 yards, or triple the size at 300 yards.
At 0.955 inches across, that is very close to an inch, which shouldn't be a problem for most good shooters.
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[/QUOTE]
There are plenty of rifles that don't even have that much mechanical accuracy. The number of people that could consistently shoot sub 5" groups at 500 yards from real hunting positions is small. Not a fan of this idea.

 

[Dooner]

Compare the trauma of an elk created by .223/ 77 TMK to that created by a bow and arrow.

Excuse me, but it sounds like you have no F-ing idea how an arrow kills!

 

[xsn10s]

I spent years with Steve/ hammer shooting archery.And have friends, several with multiple world records in 1000 and 2000 bench.So im in the loops 223 is not suited for a guy like me that LR ELK. My friend just put 2 rounds out of his LR rig within 6'' at 1755, 2'x3' plate.I read the whole thing, I just think its pushing the wrong tool.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of skepticism. But I went through most of the terminal pictures and quite frankly I saw trauma that was akin to my 30-06 at frankly close range. So I'm not advocating for anyone to change over, I'm just saying the trauma is impressive. Even out to 800 yards. It's very surprising. And one person posts it's too light a bullet or round. Another posts the damage is too great. It's an interesting topic for sure.