Caliber for Deer and Elk

[kc]

A 7MAG will make a mess of a lung shot on a Deer, but for Elk? there are many Elk who met a 7MAG and never went over the ridge.
The .3006 is a killer as a Elk calibre..165gr V-MAX.
I have never had the luck to draw a Elk permitt, but I know a few who used both calibres
and it worked just fine.

 

[mntnflyr4fun]

A 7MAG will make a mess of a lung shot on a Deer, but for Elk? there are many Elk who met a 7MAG and never went over the ridge.
The .3006 is a killer as a Elk calibre..165gr V-MAX.
I have never had the luck to draw a Elk permitt, but I know a few who used both calibres
and it worked just fine.

I will be the first to agree that there are many elk killed by a 7MM also by a .30/.30, 6.5MM. 257 Roberts etc.....lots of guns will kill elk. Many good elk rifles are range limited, and where I hunt, the ranges are getting longer as the elk get smarter.

I have killed several with an 06' myself (and have seen them soak up 6 or 7 bullets before going down), along with many killed by my 300 and 338. I moved up from the 06' due to range considerations and my personal experience has been that the lighter faster bullets whether out of a 7MM or a .30 cal Mag, have a tendancy to blow up elk, just the same as deer if you clip a shoulder or other bone mass before the bullet has slowed down enough. I have had the greatest personal success with the 338 and 250gr. premium bonded bullets resulting in 1 shot kills from 50 yds out to 600 yds with so little lost meat, that I have hung up my 300 WinMag(s) in favor of the heavier bullet.

I hunt the coast range of Oregon shooting Roosevelt bulls which are a good 30% heavier than the Rocky Mtn. version, with bone structure to match. Because of the terrain, we don't have the luxury of letting a bull go any farther after being hit than possible, "if they are still on their feet, we put more lead into them", so I stay with what works.

Several of my compadre's have hung up their 7Mags due to the explosive destruction they have experienced on what always turns out to be expensive meat even when you are able to hunt in your own back yard...Some of the newer premium bullet designs may help that some, I haven't had the desire to own one to know for myself, but I've seen many elk taken with 7Mags.

As with any hunting situation there is no single "right" gun except the one that you can shoot well, but faster, flatter, lighter isn't always a good match for heavy game.

Elk can be tough buggers, and the more you can slap them with on the first shot the better your chances are of having them stay put and not take you on a multiday/multimile hike through the woods.

My advice remains that when you finally draw that first precious elk permit, take a heavy caliber, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Although under-appreciated by the rifle toting crowd, I have been a BIG fan of Ruger rifles for decades and have owned a 1/2 dozen or so in various calibers. My brother and I both bought Stainless .338 Win Mags from Ruger a number of years ago that produced 3 shot 100yd. groups you could cover with a quarter right out of the box for around $450 bucks and I've never tried a load it didn't like pretty much as well.....pretty hard to beat that.

Ruger doesn't win any competitions for fancy, but all of mine have been ultra reliable and thats what I demand in the woods.

There are MANY more factors affecting shot placement than inherrent accuracy of a gun/load than the difference between a 1" group and a 1/2" group when you get to shooting over a log across the canyon with the wind blowing 30mph sleet and rain, downhill through the brush etc......and as far as a butter smooth action? Only matters when you are sitting around petting your gun at the end of the day. I don't know about the rest of you, but when the shooting starts, I have yet even notice the gun going off, let alone how smooth the action felt in my hands while racking in another round.

IMHO Ruger rifles meet the hunting requirements very nicely at a great price and when you beat one up a little, the gouges become battle scars, not wounds needing healing.

With a synthetic stock my .338 comes in at round 9 1/2 lbs with scope.

I guess it all depends if you are building a gun to go or a gun for show........

I quit the Ruger game when they came out in favor of the assualt rifle ban and aligned themselves with Sarah Brady. I also dumped the NRA over this as well
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

I appreciate all of the feedback you fellow members have given me. It seems like the 338 caliber is a clear winner. on another side note, how would you guys compare the recoil of the 338 win mag to say a 300 weatherby? I am not so much worried about myself, but I do let my father-in-law borrow my rifle for his elk hunts and I don't want something that will put him into the ground. I have been letting him borrow a braked 300 ultra, but it has a 28" barrel and I would like something shorter that would be an excellent backpack gun. Also, would prefer not to brake this rifle as well.

you might want to consider a .338-06. It has 85% of the power that a .338 Winchester has, but with 65% of the felt recoil. You can use that round on anything in the lower 48 with ease
gary

 

[diriel]

As for 338... I will simply say that a 225gr Nosler Accubond @ about 2850 MV. or better should do real well out to about 500-600. Real game thumper.


Good hunting,
Gary

 

[mntnflyr4fun]

I quit the Ruger game when they came out in favor of the assualt rifle ban and aligned themselves with Sarah Brady. I also dumped the NRA over this as well
gary

What was the NRA's involvement? I am familiar with Bill Ruger getting senile and whoring himself to the anti's, but the NRA? I must have misssed something....
Would like to know more about that.

Kerry

 

[Trickymissfit]

What was the NRA's involvement? I am familiar with Bill Ruger getting senile and whoring himself to the anti's, but the NRA? I must have misssed something....
Would like to know more about that.

Kerry

more than just old man Ruger! It became a corporate thing with Ruger, and later was denied till it was brought in writing to prove where he stood. Later he also endorsed the Brady bill as some of us know. And just about the sametime the NRA crawled under his desk with him. He gave them a lot of advertising dollars and cash, but never changed his tune. I now think of it as "birds of a feather flock together." But to take this further; several members questioned this unholy alignment between the two of them, and were promptly censored. That's about the time that the NRA was trying to smash Neal Knox and some others while endorsing several closet anti gun candidates in elections. Will be glad when I get the chance to read the NRA's obit in the second page of the local newspaper. Now I do not know Neal Knox, and would not know him if I ever saw him. But I've read a lot of his writings, and they were spot on.
former life member
gary

 

[mntnflyr4fun]

Thanks for the info, I am going to do a little digging myself as I am a NRA life member , but am aware that organizations sometimes lose their focus and end up on the wrong side of the fence. I don't want to be there with them.
Kerry

 

[bigngreen]

I used to hunt elk with heavy stuff, then I got tired of that and used a 300WBY for a few years, took the thumping but finally I got over it and took a good look at what was out there and did a lot of research and shooting and I have use a 270 WSM for a couple years now! I haven't broken 600yds with it on elk but up to that point I wouldn't even hesitate, I haven't had one take more than a couple wobbly steps before tipping over. I don't have to "break" them down or shoot them through the shoulders, just stick a Berger or Accubond though there heart or lungs and they just die, perty simple!! Recoil is not bad at all and you can actually shoot the thing from any position without getting the snot kicked out of ya.
If you look at the numbers for a decent elk bullet in the 270 WSM and the 338 Win there is not as much difference that most would have you believe, the 338 has 100-200 lbs more energy and a touch more momentum but the 270 WSM has plenty to do a good job on an elk still. The 270 WSM dominates the 338 in trajectory and wind drift which really aids in putting the bullet in the right place at the longer ranges!!
IMO the only thing that has saved the 338 win type chamberings is this day and age is the newer bullets that are out like Accubond and the TTSX I'm even going to build another one just to shoot the TTSX but I would say there a more good elk cartridges than ever and the only reason to stick with a 338 win or 338-06 type is you like it.

 

[mntnflyr4fun]

According to Sierra Infinity V6, the following wind drift attibutes are calculated for a 270WSM 130gr. Accubond at 3300fpsvs. 338 200gr. Accubond at 2800fps

Drift 10mph crosswind

270WSM 338WinMag
400 yds 9.2" 3.7"
600 yds 22.1" 8.8"

Where I come from, thats considered a pretty big spread. Now increase the crosswind component to 15 or 20 mph and see how much bigger the spread gets.

Sorry, but there isn't a 270cal. rifle I know of that can spit out a 130/140/150 gr. bullet fast enough to overcome the physics of inflight wind affects. If there is, I sure would like to hear about it because I am no fan of recoil and am always trying to find the best compromise between inflight performance and terminal ballistics. Not afraid to change, just haven't found something to change to.

You'd have to go quite a ways up in bullet weight to get the 270WSM to ever handle the wind like a 338 or even a 300WinMag, as physics just don't work in favor of the lighter bullets downrange when bucking the wind.

All that being said, I am working on a load now using my 300WinMag with 200gr. Accubonds that looks like a better fit for my loooong range work than my 338 which I will retain for the "up to 500 yd" type shooting with the 300 coming out when the bulls get beyond that, which where I hunt is often.

I don't like scope clutter, so having two guns available sighted in for different ranges works better for me than trying to deal with BDC scopes that almost match my trajectory profiles. When the elk start to get 500-600 yards away, my experience has been that they don't get real concerned about you being there swapping guns until you start making that big booming sound.

Good luck with the 270WSM, I've always been a fan of 270 cal. guns, but my experience has just been a little different than yours.

 

[bigngreen]

I can't get those numbers, wind deflection will favor the higher BC or one that has much shorter flight time, the 270 has both, maybe I have something jacked up.

270 WSM 140 Accubond at 3300 fps 338 win 200gr Accubond at 2800fps 200yrd zero. Wind deflection at 10mph full value. 6000ft DA.

400yrd WSM 7.7in 338 win 12.1in
600yrd WSM 18.4 in 338 win 29.6 in

With those bullets and loads I get the 270 WSM over taking the 338 in energy also at 100yrds. Leaving only momentum in favor of the 338.
I hope I'm wrong cause I really wanted to build a 338 again but the numbers bummed me out.

 

[mcseal2]

I don't use the 130gr accubond in my 270WSM for that reason, the 140 AB has a much higher BC. The WSM has plenty of case to push a 140gr bullet to 3200 and that is a more efficient long range set up. I have not shot elk with mine, but love it for deer.

When you run the ballistics programs with the 140gr accubond at a BC of .496 and velocity of 3200 it looks much better in the wind.

I am curious about the 338 results posted also. I use Berger's ballistics program and not Sierra's but I get different results when I run it.

Ran at 40 degrees, 10mph wind from 3:00

338 MV 2800 200AB BC .414
400 15.06" drift
600 37.33" drift


270WSM MV 3200 140 AB BC.496
400 10.02" drift
600 24.43" drift


Back to the original question, I have a Browning A-bolt in 270WSM and it is very accurate. With the 140 AB and my Leupold CDS I have taken game out to 400yds, and can ring my 10" gong regularly at 600. I'd not be afraid to shoot a deer that far under good conditions prone. It also weighs in ready to hunt at under 8lbs. I'd like to get another one set up the same in 300WSM to shoot the 180 or 200gr accubond for elk. I would not be afraid to use the 270WSM for broadside elk, but would feel more comfortable with a heavier bullet on quartering shots. The 270WSM is pleasant to shoot, but when I get a 300 it will get a brake. If you buy a Browning, buy a limbsaver pad, they are worth every penny.

Here is now my 270WSM is set up (minus the brake) and what my 300WSM plan is:

Browning 300WSM
Bell & Carlson ultralight aluminum bedded stock
2lb trigger kit
Leupold VXIII 4.5-14x40mm CDS
Limbsaver pad
Vias muzzle brake

If the factory barrel doesn't shoot well enough I'll put on an aftermarket barrel, but I've had 2 A-bolts and both shot very well. I'll make sure this one does too before adding a brake.

Good luck on your decision!

 

[7 loader]

My father in law used his 7mm rem mag on deer and elk. My uncle is a professional guide in the west and Alaska. They swear by it, so do I. My ruger 7mm hasn't met a deer it hasn't killed out to 300 yds.

 

[matt_3479]

something as small as a 270. win would do but my preference would be the 7mm rem mag. Beautiful deer rifle out too 1000 yards and elk out to 600 yards. wouldn't second guess a 7mm rem mag