Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges

[Deleted member 46119]

Awesome! Who's going to have the print? And do you have cases available to buy yet?

Manson will probably have the print first. Ed can say for sure.
I'm sure Ed will have cases.

 

[hubel458]

Manson should have 416 HE and 408 HE prints today in the mail.

He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.

We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,

Going to do more cases for these 2 sizes, Ed

PM or email. ph 989-644-5228

I understand that there was 2-3 times as many guys wanting

to try the 2 mile than there was openings for.Ed

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

So question,

How much fatter can "bmg" case be made and it still fit into "bmg" receivers with no problem?

THEIS

 

[hubel458]

They only could be blown out to base size anyway with straight sides,

but we are not doing that with 416 HSM. Some actions take cases

about 1/8" bigger say like a 8ga . ED

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

I am referring to BMG action space allowance, Not what the actual brass can or cannot do
I know how much fatter I can manufacturer the brass to fit my rifle but I would like to get figures on a few different actions.

THEIS

 

[ELR Researcher]

Hello,

So question,

How much fatter can "bmg" case be made and it still fit into "bmg" receivers with no problem?

THEIS

You asked about the case, not the action. Ed responded about the case.

You then followed up with,

"I am referring to BMG action space allowance, Not what the actual brass can or cannot do
I know how much fatter I can manufacturer the brass to fit my rifle but I would like to get figures on a few different actions."

OK, you have me stumped, what is "action space"? Are you asking about COAL for cartridges used in .50 BMG repeater action? Or?

 

[THEIS]

OK, you have me stumped, what is "action space"? Are you asking about COAL for cartridges used in .50 BMG repeater action? Or?

Hello,

Nope...How much "Fatter" cartridge can you fit into your RPA action for example?
Not concerned on length and not concerned of "can only make as big as base"...for this conversations sake let us not think in terms of standard bmg brass sizes but the actual dimensions of the inside "raceway" area of typical BMG actions.

THEIS

 

[ELR Researcher]

Hello,

Nope...How much "Fatter" cartridge can you fit into your RPA action for example?
Not concerned on length and not concerned of "can only make as big as base"...for this conversations sake let us not think in terms of standard bmg brass sizes but the actual dimensions of the inside "raceway" area of typical BMG actions.

THEIS

Really unclear what you are trying to get at. The capability of an action is not just dimensions - also material, heat treat, base functional design, safety margin, ... Inside raceway? The Barnard GP and RPA GBMF are both approx. 1.340 across the lugs. My BAT EX is in build, so someone else will need to give you that number. Same with McMillan for their TAC50.

 

[hubel458]

Looks as 416 HSM will have about 20-25gr more capacity than regular

50bmg, after fireformed and as for actions if you add up the fat bolt non-bmg

actions, with .750"- .800" bolts, there are about a dozen, some priced

pretty reasonable. Some are higher.

For 416 HSM we can use a EU made primer I have some of, that

is tamed down a little for smoother ignition, and its cup is harder

than CCI 35s , so we can go quite high pressures. Rigging up

hydraulics on my huge press for easier case shaping.

When few cases fireformed we'll have exact specs for reamer guys.Ed

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I think what THEIS is getting at is:

What is the maximum body diameter of the brass casing an RPA action can take, example.

BMG is .804
14.5 Russian is 1.057
60 MAchine Gun is 1.142
20mm Vulcan should be 1.142 as the 60 Machine gun is necked down 20mm Vulcan

If that is the question the answer depends on the barrel tenon size.

I only know a couple big actions and they are not BMG sized, they are 1.2x16 threads.

1.2 - .804 = .396/2 = .198 wall thickness, Not enough.
1.2 - .740 = .46/2 = .23 wall thickness, OK.

So to base a round on say a 14.5 Russian

1.057 + .3 wall thicness * 2 = 1.657 minimum barrel tenon diameter. Lets round that up to 1.6875 - 16 with a 1.25 length.

Am I going in the right direction?

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

Correct..

I am willing to consider manufacturing fatter and longer .804 based brass but trying to figure how much "fatter" the brass can still be made and fit into "BMG" receivers.

My barrel tenon and extension is plenty big enough..I was just trying to see if the new brass design would fit into other receivers.

Might just be easier to use body dimensions of "50 improved" but lengthen case to 150mm then neck down to 375 for the polymer coated tungsten projectiles......

THEIS

 

[ELR Researcher]

I think what THEIS is getting at is:

What is the maximum body diameter of the brass casing an RPA action can take, example.

BMG is .804
14.5 Russian is 1.057
60 MAchine Gun is 1.142
20mm Vulcan should be 1.142 as the 60 Machine gun is necked down 20mm Vulcan

If that is the question the answer depends on the barrel tenon size.

I only know a couple big actions and they are not BMG sized, they are 1.2x16 threads.

1.2 - .804 = .396/2 = .198 wall thickness, Not enough.
1.2 - .740 = .46/2 = .23 wall thickness, OK.

So to base a round on say a 14.5 Russian

1.057 + .3 wall thicness * 2 = 1.657 minimum barrel tenon diameter. Lets round that up to 1.6875 - 16 with a 1.25 length.

Am I going in the right direction?

Fred:

1. As both Ed and Pro have demonstrated with their designs, rim size is not a limit to the body diameter.
2. Tenon size is questionable as the "gauge" since the question then becomes how much meat is in the action at the tenon. The BAT L (max CT BF max) has a 1.25x16 tenon but the action OD can be 2.0 (one of two size options). But the BAT EX (their only .50 BMG BF offering - with CT BF option) is available in 2.0 and 2.5 ODs - the 2.0 being basically the "standard" for 50 BMG.
3. And your "discriminator" ignores "material, heat treat, base functional design, etc." For example, the Kelbly 338 LM Panda action is predominantly aluminum with a steel insert at the tenon.

Bottom line, much more than rim size and tenon sizes to be considered.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Fred:

1. As both Ed and Pro have demonstrated with their designs, rim size is not a limit to the body diameter.
2. Tenon size is questionable as the "gauge" since the question then becomes how much meat is in the action at the tenon. The BAT L (max CT BF max) has a 1.25x16 tenon but the action OD can be 2.0 (one of two size options). But the BAT EX (their only .50 BMG BF offering - with CT BF option) is available in 2.0 and 2.5 ODs - the 2.0 being basically the "standard" for 50 BMG.
3. And your "discriminator" ignores "material, heat treat, base functional design, etc." For example, the Kelbly 338 LM Panda action is predominantly aluminum with a steel insert at the tenon.

Bottom line, much more than rim size and tenon sizes to be considered.

I was only referencing body size. Rims can be rebated but that only exacerbates the thin tenon problem.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Hello,

Correct..

I am willing to consider manufacturing fatter and longer .804 based brass but trying to figure how much "fatter" the brass can still be made and fit into "BMG" receivers.

My barrel tenon and extension is plenty big enough..I was just trying to see if the new brass design would fit into other receivers.

Might just be easier to use body dimensions of "50 improved" but lengthen case to 150mm then neck down to 375 for the polymer coated tungsten projectiles......

THEIS

What is your barrel tenon dimension? Diameter, thread pitch, length?