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Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges
- Thread starter EXPRESS
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Hello,
I am USA citizen and have home in Tennessee but I get what you are saying in regards to not having the time or desire to neck down to those diameters, no problem. Thanks
Also just a piece of US Department of States Directorate of Defense Trade Controls advice....You may want to have legal counsel that specializes in ITAR go over some things with you. YOU as the HE and HSM "manufacturer" are required to have ITAR registration even if you plan NOT to export. ALL manufacturers, exporters and brokers of anything listed on US Munitions List Part 121 are required to register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC). Registration is primarily a means to provide the U.S. Government with necessary information on who is involved in certain manufacturing, exporting and brokering activities. Registration does not confer any export rights or privileges, but is a precondition for the issuance of any license or other approval for export.
US State Department - Policy - Directorate of Defense Trade Controls
YOUR brass falls into category III of the USML 121. (1) The components, parts, accessories and attachments controlled in this category include, but are not limited to cartridge cases, powder bags (or other propellant charges), bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun shells), projectiles (including canister rounds and submunitions therefor), boosters, firing components therefor, primers, and other detonating devices for the defense articles controlled in this category.
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf
THEIS
I'm not mfg basic brass case, just wildcatting it,
researching and testing it for speed..
I don't think wildcatters/reloaders have to license.
Sure hope all who wildcat and resize and reload
and cast bullets don't have to license..Ed
researching and testing it for speed..
I don't think wildcatters/reloaders have to license.
Sure hope all who wildcat and resize and reload
and cast bullets don't have to license..Ed
Hello,
My mistake, I thought you were using brass headstamped 585HE (Hubel Express) to make your wildcats. Your using headstamp of parent case?
If you are using brass from bertram with your own headstamp then someone in the USA is considered the "manufacturer"..either you or the importer. That would depend on how the shipping manifest and import license was filled out.
THEIS
My mistake, I thought you were using brass headstamped 585HE (Hubel Express) to make your wildcats. Your using headstamp of parent case?
If you are using brass from bertram with your own headstamp then someone in the USA is considered the "manufacturer"..either you or the importer. That would depend on how the shipping manifest and import license was filled out.
THEIS
Importer probably is considered mfg as they did papers directly for
that specific case, and the manifest was made out to them,
and the bigger wildcats we are doing from bmg cases
doesn't have my headstamp, it is Lake City mfg and headsstamp ..Ed
that specific case, and the manifest was made out to them,
and the bigger wildcats we are doing from bmg cases
doesn't have my headstamp, it is Lake City mfg and headsstamp ..Ed
GREAT then you should be covered. It is just crazy to me in regards to the amount of manufacturer vs non manufacturer cases the State Dept procecutes each year; specific to registration. And I haven't seen or read memo of them losing but 2 in 13 years.
Sorry to have sidetracked thread conversation but I witness Federal cases every year on ITAR and it always sucks for the individual and/or company.
THEIS
etisll40
Well-Known Member
following
D
Deleted member 46119
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Because it's the State Department. If it's not really about National Security, it's about money or control. Every case is used to solidify legal precedent.
ELR Researcher
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Ed:
Its unclear to me why you are going through all the trouble to beat on a poor .50 BMG case rather than just using that case. BTW, a .710 rim fits into what bolt face action (without bolt mods)? CT is nominally .690, BMG is nominally .804. If you are looking for an inexpensive .50 action go East Ridge Guns/State Arms - $850 with trigger, trigger guard, and scope rail - Accessories - East Ridge Gun Company And they are very small actions (look at their rifle pics). Case-holder style should be no issue since no one in this game is running out of a magazine and the time to reload (the rifle) is minimal.
As I have suggested before, go out to about a 6" long BMG and neck back down to .50. Starting out at 3.91, nominally, and .804, would provide a significant increase in case capacity - what 2 miles plus is all about (powder capacity vs bullet weight). Crank up the bullet weight to at least 1000 grs and have at it.
While I realize you have a significant investment in the .585, now that you are finally working with a base .50 BMG case, why go smaller? As my last post - no bonus points for being efficient.
Its unclear to me why you are going through all the trouble to beat on a poor .50 BMG case rather than just using that case. BTW, a .710 rim fits into what bolt face action (without bolt mods)? CT is nominally .690, BMG is nominally .804. If you are looking for an inexpensive .50 action go East Ridge Guns/State Arms - $850 with trigger, trigger guard, and scope rail - Accessories - East Ridge Gun Company And they are very small actions (look at their rifle pics). Case-holder style should be no issue since no one in this game is running out of a magazine and the time to reload (the rifle) is minimal.
As I have suggested before, go out to about a 6" long BMG and neck back down to .50. Starting out at 3.91, nominally, and .804, would provide a significant increase in case capacity - what 2 miles plus is all about (powder capacity vs bullet weight). Crank up the bullet weight to at least 1000 grs and have at it.
While I realize you have a significant investment in the .585, now that you are finally working with a base .50 BMG case, why go smaller? As my last post - no bonus points for being efficient.
ELR Researcher
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- Joined
- Aug 11, 2009
- Messages
- 1,536
Just when we are all getting comfortable talking about 2 miles - World Record 3 mile (5,280 yard) shot
D
Deleted member 46119
Guest
They haven't done it yet.
I have no way to get bmg case out that long, If I could I'd have
done it years ago to makr my 700s longer, And it isn't about efficiency,
it is what we think is the most accurate combo for 2 mile, within
the 50 lb limit, and that is 416 dia with bullets exact or better scale up
of the hot BC 375 bullets, Granted they can be scaled up to .458 and .512
but need heavier guns than 50 lbs to be as accurate. And we will get bmg
case wildcatting down to the 416 HSM size, so it will be much faster than getting
cases made and imported. Way faster. If we make 30 a day, thats 10000
a year and 15 a day 5000 cases year, and we'll have public info so guys
can set up an do there own. And there are thousands wildcatters and shops
with much better machines than I got, to wildcat bmg cases with,
As for For non bmg actions, of medium size in the range from big bmg,
to small, there are 15 and more that will work with .750" or little bigger
bolts, barnard, stillers. lawton, gma , mrc PH, etc. Most bmg actions
I personally don't care for how they are built, so we going ahead,
if I don't croak.. ED
done it years ago to makr my 700s longer, And it isn't about efficiency,
it is what we think is the most accurate combo for 2 mile, within
the 50 lb limit, and that is 416 dia with bullets exact or better scale up
of the hot BC 375 bullets, Granted they can be scaled up to .458 and .512
but need heavier guns than 50 lbs to be as accurate. And we will get bmg
case wildcatting down to the 416 HSM size, so it will be much faster than getting
cases made and imported. Way faster. If we make 30 a day, thats 10000
a year and 15 a day 5000 cases year, and we'll have public info so guys
can set up an do there own. And there are thousands wildcatters and shops
with much better machines than I got, to wildcat bmg cases with,
As for For non bmg actions, of medium size in the range from big bmg,
to small, there are 15 and more that will work with .750" or little bigger
bolts, barnard, stillers. lawton, gma , mrc PH, etc. Most bmg actions
I personally don't care for how they are built, so we going ahead,
if I don't croak.. ED
Hello,
According to his post directly..they have not even made 2 miles yet. Last fall they made it to 3050 yards before weather got bad for the year...HUGE distance difference from 3050 yards to 5280 yards!!!
Not knowing their exact MV and ASL..with a normal 408CT chambering they are going to be about 2300 yards into TS/SS flight.
Also takes Guinness WR 12 weeks to review a World Record application (Unless you pay for priority services). Maybe BROZ can ask them for a copy of the world record application so that we can see exact what Guinness has "approved" as the criteria for the world record attempt? Because every detail of the attempt has to be laid out for Guinness, such as time, number of shots vs number of misses, etc etc....EVERYTHING is detailed.
THEIS
JeffVN
Well-Known Member
The main problem I see with anything bigger than .375 (that isn't a 50) is finding good barrels and bullets. It is possible a small manufacturer will step up to fill the gap for heavy, high BC bullets and faster than normal twists for the heavier than normal projectiles, but this is a very small specialized market with very little demand on an annual basis (meaning the individual shooters in this realm don't shoot 2,000+ plus rounds a year). I doubt there are 500 .375 cheytac and ELR shooters in the U.S. Demand for product drives the manufacturer's desire to produce the product.
Remember the need for a special group buy to get Bartlein to build fast twist .375 barrels? Where are you going to find 10-15 people needing a fast twist .408 or .416 barrel?
maybe they are out there, but right now it seems hard enough to find sufficient .375 demand for the most advanced bullet designers and manufacturers to produce products.
Jeffvn
Remember the need for a special group buy to get Bartlein to build fast twist .375 barrels? Where are you going to find 10-15 people needing a fast twist .408 or .416 barrel?
maybe they are out there, but right now it seems hard enough to find sufficient .375 demand for the most advanced bullet designers and manufacturers to produce products.
Jeffvn
