Mountain Sloth
Well-Known Member
My guy... are you gonna be paying for everyone's tags to tell people what they can take? If its taken legally and ethically there is no issue weather it is mature or not.. just some food for thought.
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Let them walk.
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Even archery hunting I am a trophy hunter. Love hunting and thrill of hunting vs killing and preservation of animal quality and quantity. To each their own as long it fits the local laws and game management program. Unfortunately some of management programs are not great so use your own judgement.
Buckys
Well-Known Member
We have antler restrictions in many counties in Texas. We lack any exceptions for the age of the buck.
The majority of deer harvests in Texas are not taken on public land. In my opinion, this is not of importance to this conversation except that the land owner is another level of potential constraints on the question of "what is a legal buck?".
I shoot mature animals, cull bucks and does (preferably whichever legal and ethical option offers the most meat).
I hunt in areas of our state without antler restrictions simply because, in my opinion, age must be a factor in maturity limits for harvesting a buck.
I personally believe that it is a mistake to have a conversation about what mature hunters should allow to walk that does not start with age. Starting with or quickly jumping to antler size may encourage mature hunters to kill an animal with the potential to be a "high-quality" before they reach maturity.
In areas with excellent genetics, these restrictions seem to work well and even very well in lots of cases. They would work even better with aging considerations, in my opinion. Lots of 2-4 year old bucks that meet the minimum inside spread, number of points, etc. will be harvested.
In areas with poor genetics with those antler restrictions, it limits hunters ability to cull 6+ year whitetail buck that have never and will never meet those restrictions. I no longer hunt in those areas due to my concern on how that behavior could shape the future of those herds.
In addition to the state's general restrictions, the area that I hunt now does not have state imposed antler restrictions, limits our harvest to one buck or doe (in years when the herd is healthy, we can take a buck and a late-season doe) and requires that harvested bucks be at least 5 years old with the exceptions of 2.5yr+ spikes or 6+ points without brow tines or at least 140 (about 80% of the best trophy potential for that area). It also encourages that we take our kids hunting and greatly relaxes restrictions for a kid's first buck (and then encourages them to level-up their threshold for future buck harvests). If your kid takes a buck, that is your family's one buck, which further encourages dad to help teach their kids to be good stewards. It is a good fit for me.
The majority of deer harvests in Texas are not taken on public land. In my opinion, this is not of importance to this conversation except that the land owner is another level of potential constraints on the question of "what is a legal buck?".
I shoot mature animals, cull bucks and does (preferably whichever legal and ethical option offers the most meat).
I hunt in areas of our state without antler restrictions simply because, in my opinion, age must be a factor in maturity limits for harvesting a buck.
I personally believe that it is a mistake to have a conversation about what mature hunters should allow to walk that does not start with age. Starting with or quickly jumping to antler size may encourage mature hunters to kill an animal with the potential to be a "high-quality" before they reach maturity.
In areas with excellent genetics, these restrictions seem to work well and even very well in lots of cases. They would work even better with aging considerations, in my opinion. Lots of 2-4 year old bucks that meet the minimum inside spread, number of points, etc. will be harvested.
In areas with poor genetics with those antler restrictions, it limits hunters ability to cull 6+ year whitetail buck that have never and will never meet those restrictions. I no longer hunt in those areas due to my concern on how that behavior could shape the future of those herds.
In addition to the state's general restrictions, the area that I hunt now does not have state imposed antler restrictions, limits our harvest to one buck or doe (in years when the herd is healthy, we can take a buck and a late-season doe) and requires that harvested bucks be at least 5 years old with the exceptions of 2.5yr+ spikes or 6+ points without brow tines or at least 140 (about 80% of the best trophy potential for that area). It also encourages that we take our kids hunting and greatly relaxes restrictions for a kid's first buck (and then encourages them to level-up their threshold for future buck harvests). If your kid takes a buck, that is your family's one buck, which further encourages dad to help teach their kids to be good stewards. It is a good fit for me.
This deer was ages by a biologist and it was 7 1/2 years teeth were ground down he was better two years prior when I first had seen him. He then disappeared. My area are basically hill country deer and the best I have seen taken in this area have been around 160. There was one taken about five miles north of me that went into the 170 but it possibly was a high fence escapee. Most areas within two hour
s of the metro DFW are literally shot out. Legal is 13 inch eights and spikes. So many don't make it to 2 1/2. If it brown it's down mentality. In Texas if you don't bait with feeders they go where they do. With the drought happening in my area they are hitting the corn and protein hard. I do my part to let them walk. I try to keep 4/5 130/140 class deer on the property by feed and management. But it's low fence I can only do so much.
I'm not a trophy hunter, but I also don't kill basket racked deer either. I did kill a deer last season, the first in many years. He wasn't a trophy, only a 6 pointer that didn't have a very heavy rack. He did have 21 1/2" inside spread and was probably 5 years old or older. Not really what we want contributing to the gene pool.
I hadn't killed in years, not because I hadn't had an opportunity, because I didn't see anything that interested me. Same with turkeys, I don't shoot jakes.
Several years ago, on the fourth of July my wife and I went to our nearest town to watch fireworks. We drove separate because she was singing with the praise team from our church. As I was waiting in traffic in town a car comes flying up beside me and out jumps a young off duty state trooper that I know. I had seen three punks that were walking along beside the traffic mouthing at whoever was in the rig in front of me. What I didn't know was they had also had a run in with the off-duty trooper earlier. The young trooper comes around the front of my truck and confronts the three punks. I get out of the truck and at the same time the troopers wife gets out of their car and tells me that the three punks were going to beat her husband. I walked up beside the trooper and told him I'd help him. I don't really think he needed it as I saw him untuck his shirt in the back and I'm pretty sure his pistol was there. Anyway, nothing came of it other than a lot of mouthing by the three guys.
When I got home, I relayed the story to my wife. She scolded me for getting involved told me that I could've gotten hurt and should've stayed in the truck. I told her that's a big part of the problem in our country today, everyone stays in the truck!
Sorry for the long reply.
I hadn't killed in years, not because I hadn't had an opportunity, because I didn't see anything that interested me. Same with turkeys, I don't shoot jakes.
Several years ago, on the fourth of July my wife and I went to our nearest town to watch fireworks. We drove separate because she was singing with the praise team from our church. As I was waiting in traffic in town a car comes flying up beside me and out jumps a young off duty state trooper that I know. I had seen three punks that were walking along beside the traffic mouthing at whoever was in the rig in front of me. What I didn't know was they had also had a run in with the off-duty trooper earlier. The young trooper comes around the front of my truck and confronts the three punks. I get out of the truck and at the same time the troopers wife gets out of their car and tells me that the three punks were going to beat her husband. I walked up beside the trooper and told him I'd help him. I don't really think he needed it as I saw him untuck his shirt in the back and I'm pretty sure his pistol was there. Anyway, nothing came of it other than a lot of mouthing by the three guys.
When I got home, I relayed the story to my wife. She scolded me for getting involved told me that I could've gotten hurt and should've stayed in the truck. I told her that's a big part of the problem in our country today, everyone stays in the truck!
Sorry for the long reply.
The Badger
Well-Known Member
The original post assumes that the only goal or success to the hunt is taking a trophy animal. And anything less is a lack of principles. If that is your goal, then waiting and only taking a large racked older buck is great, for YOU. Principals are personal, those are yours that you've set for yourself. As long as its legal, it's each hunter's own business to set what their goals are, or what their own "principles" should be.
Been hunting much better property the last many years. Have been fortunate to take a few quality animals by SE whitetail standards and let a lot walk on by these days. But I still have a box of skull plates of spikes & forkhorns in the garage I run across every now and then and think what I would give to go back and re-live the excitement of those hunts. I regret not a one. Nobody can ever take those moments away. Certainly not some other guy's "principles".
Been hunting much better property the last many years. Have been fortunate to take a few quality animals by SE whitetail standards and let a lot walk on by these days. But I still have a box of skull plates of spikes & forkhorns in the garage I run across every now and then and think what I would give to go back and re-live the excitement of those hunts. I regret not a one. Nobody can ever take those moments away. Certainly not some other guy's "principles".
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I've hunted TX WT for years mostly for meat when I hunted on a section. Now that I only hunt on a 67 acre place just a few miles from the city limits, I decided to employ some herd management. I have a couple of friends who guide TX WT hunts. I take pictures of deer on the place 45 minutes from my house for them to age. This one is a consensus to be taken out.
Any guess on the age?
Now can y'all guess the ages of these WT that I passed up last year? Which one to take this season? Most likely no one took them out. All season there weren't any shots fired as this area has large parcels and populated by multi$M mansions surrounding the place. Appears like I may be the only one hunting within 1/2 mile radius. All pictures taken through the spotter
Any guess on the age?
Now can y'all guess the ages of these WT that I passed up last year? Which one to take this season? Most likely no one took them out. All season there weren't any shots fired as this area has large parcels and populated by multi$M mansions surrounding the place. Appears like I may be the only one hunting within 1/2 mile radius. All pictures taken through the spotter
I was a lucky kid had a farm that had whitetail. Shot a small 6 pts as my first. The second was a large bol 2x2. After that year all I want to do was hold back and let them get bigger and hunt for the bigger one just on my own no one needed to tell me let that one go. I think most if the time the natural progression is wait for a bigger one it just around the bend. Yes you do go home empty handed frequently. However if taught correctly what it is all about the bigger one is gravey on a good hunting effort.
ofbandg
Well-Known Member
Most hunters are individuals. The kind of people who go into the woods alone are the kind of people who think for themselves. I have been a trophy hunter of sorts, especially when it came to sheep which are difficult to hunt and mule deer which are too easy to hunt, at least in my area, but I have also been a meat hunter when it came to moose and elk. After getting into my middle years I began realizing how much either type of hunting, for me, was an emotional experience, even a spiritual one. I started noticing that I was passing on game I would have normally shot because things just weren't right. It didn't feel like a hunting day. It was too warm or the animal was too easy, it was too early in the season or my head just wasn't into it. I had that choice.
I believe in science. When the biologists set the seasons it's for the good of the herd and I don't fault anyone for taking a legal animal, but I also will never fault anyone for waiting to see if they can find a bigger one. Hunting is an expression of your personal freedom. We had the grand good luck to be born into a nation that allows us the ownership of guns, and to carry them on public land for harvesting animals that are available to those skilled enough to do so. We grew up in nations that taught us the rights and responsibilities of making our own decisions. As individual hunters, who respect what we have been given, we owe others the freedom to exercise their differences within the rules of the land, whether we agree with them or not.
I believe in science. When the biologists set the seasons it's for the good of the herd and I don't fault anyone for taking a legal animal, but I also will never fault anyone for waiting to see if they can find a bigger one. Hunting is an expression of your personal freedom. We had the grand good luck to be born into a nation that allows us the ownership of guns, and to carry them on public land for harvesting animals that are available to those skilled enough to do so. We grew up in nations that taught us the rights and responsibilities of making our own decisions. As individual hunters, who respect what we have been given, we owe others the freedom to exercise their differences within the rules of the land, whether we agree with them or not.
Whatever dude. I'm glad you're passionate about it. You're not going to change many minds. I mostly agree with you, but am at the stage where it's more about the experience then the trophy. My favorite thing is sharing this great hobby with my friends and kids.
The real solution is for fish & game departments to care more about the animals than the revenue hunting provides. I'm in Idaho and their primary goal seems to be to sell tags. 99% percent of critters have no chance to get old. Managing a few of the areas as genuine trophy units would be nice, but that requires far fewer hunters in those areas. That has drawbacks too. You and I might not ever get a chance.
One thing you ignored is environmental and genetic potential. In some areas animals just don't get that big even when they get old. Waiting for a a B&C pronghorn in Idaho might be a bit frustrating.
The real solution is for fish & game departments to care more about the animals than the revenue hunting provides. I'm in Idaho and their primary goal seems to be to sell tags. 99% percent of critters have no chance to get old. Managing a few of the areas as genuine trophy units would be nice, but that requires far fewer hunters in those areas. That has drawbacks too. You and I might not ever get a chance.
One thing you ignored is environmental and genetic potential. In some areas animals just don't get that big even when they get old. Waiting for a a B&C pronghorn in Idaho might be a bit frustrating.
Surely not, as I didn't put you on my ignore list and can see your posts.
That's the part the people hiding their lack of principle behind "biologists" don't realize. The economic factors are in the drivers seat. All other effects are secondary. Anyone that doesn't realize this has never been privy to the process by which game departments are run. If the "biologist" doesn't give them the answer they want... they go find a new "biologist."
I didn't ignore it. I didn't mention it, as I didn't mention most things that pertain to proper resource management. My thread was worded in such a way to allow people to identify themselves, and shine a light with laser intensity on who they are based on how they react to what is said. The problem on my mind is not exclusive to hunting. Read the thread back. It's obvious to see who is thinking and who is not. Those that aren't, and those that liked posts by those that aren't... went on my ignore list. You won't find any instance of me singling anyone out, yet there they are flagging themselves and attacking me claiming I was the one that flagged them.
Fact is, it's always the same people on here reacting the same way toward everyone, no matter the topic. This has not improved over time. It has only become worse. They refuse to be convicted. Not by themselves, and surely not by anyone else. I have no obligation to back down from my message of holding to a higher standard in all things for the comfort of those that choose lesser. Self sacrifice. Sacrifice of personal gratification for the improvement of the satisfaction of all. Exercising restraint. Pursuit of the greatest burden you can carry, and shouldering it. Men of principle do not stop being so just because they are engaged in some specific endeavor. Men without principle do not start being principled when the occasion calls for it.
Some are willing to be convicted. Most are not.
I look around this world, and I see prophecy being fulfilled. I will not work to stand in the way of what is coming. I will work diligently to surround myself with and keep the company of those that would work to see standards raised and the bar elevated.
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Well, I read every post. It is interesting for sure to see the responses. As others have mentioned I hunt for the pure pleasure of getting out in the field. I haven't shot a buck in several years. Passed on too many to count. My wife took a turn to not liking venison. So meat hunting is not my goal any longer. Every hunter has to make up their own mind on what their goals are. Judging others' approach as long as it is legal is not wise.
OldSchoolHunter
Member
I am not a trophy hunter, my people were here long before the white man came to our land. We hunt for meat for our family. Not for the horns or antlers. If we killed one that had them, we did not hang them on a wall, we used them for tools. When and where legal I will shoot a doe over big horns. I do not understand trophy hunting, but from what I see a trophy is in the eyes of the hunter, not a measuring tape. We would like to get a big one only because there is more meat. Ignore if you like, but we will hunt the ways of the Shoshone. We do Save the big Horns for the white man to guild them to for money.
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