Let them walk.

[cantfixstupid]

Ha ha this is something else, Texas has a whole slew of hunters that will shoot anything that has a hard something on its head, but most leases here have more stringent game rules than the state does, but then there are some low rent places that you can go shoot anything you want to. There is a huge portion of Texas that no matter how long you wait they just aren't going to get any bigger antler wise or body size, the lease I'm on we have a 5 year rule for bucks and the does shouldn't have a weaning yearling before you can take them. They check the age on every buck, you have to take a lower jaw and submit it for inspection, honor system on the doe.
All that being said, and I may be wrong but Texas has the highest population density per square mile of any state in the union. We have some huge mule deer that live in the bleakest sand dune ridden part of the state, I mean literally nothing but sand dunes as far as the eye can see. Then we have South Texas, where the monster whitetail abounds. I live close to Houston in an urban setting and we have 170 whitetails in my neighborhood no body hunts them as you would wind getting a trophy neighbor while you did it.
If its legal I honestly can't see why you would wait especially down here, there are just so many of them. We have to have a special thinning on many ranches every year and I'm not talking about 5 or 10 deer in some cases it hundreds, our little place is just over 2500 acres and the TP&W recommended that we take an extra 100 does and 15 cull bucks last year.
There is almost no public land so you gotta pay to play that's probably the best conservation that there is, may not be fair in some eyes but its obvious it works. If I want a big ole wall hanger, which I have many I will pay the price and go on the hunt with big boys out west or international but I have to say my favorite is my little free range lease in the Hill Country with tiny deer.

 

[SArnold30]

Man, I've seen 20 year old, blue-haired gender study majors that virtue signal less than the OP. Tis a poor Christian that stands atop their own pulpit and distorts the values of their faith so that it most aligns with their own singular point of view.

 

[can1010]

I can't believe you ladies and gents gave this guy 10 pages of your time.

 

[cantfixstupid]

I have spent a lot of my life in the classroom as both a student and instructor, and there is one thing that I've learned with trying to teach people: if someone knows your making a statement based from religious or political preferences, you are far less likely to have them approach it with an open mind. In fact, when trying to actually debate something, politics and religious views entering into the equation often mean that you have failed. I am extremely devote in my faith, but it is MY faith and is not something that I will cast upon others as by which the standard we need to have a discussion. In fact, if the history of my religion is any measuring stick for which to carry on a discussion, then I think we've actually become quite civil!

Regardless, there is Biblical context for slaughtering young animals for consumption, and nothing that states proper stewardship and domain over the animals requires a certain arbitrary score to be met to allow for ethical kills. Our society has added such constraints, and so long as they are followed, I believe we are best served keeping our personal judgment to ourselves. Killing only "trophy" animals is, by definition, trophy hunting. The history of hunting, from indigenous peoples to now, has always celebrated trophies, but not made them the measuring stick by which a kill can or cannot be made. The animal is a reflection of the hunt and I would rather see efforts put to use in trying to increase education and opportunity around hunting, rather than casting airs of moral supremacy over others for legal kills. I don't consider myself a road hunter, but if a giant deer happens to stand up 50 yards from me getting out of the truck, does that mean I shouldn't take it? Should I then chastise someone else for taking an animal near a road? Likewise, animal size and definition of trophy status is subjective and requires too many inputs to make that determination for someone else.

What he said

 

[Mountain Sloth]

I can't believe you ladies and gents gave this guy 9 pages of your time.

well now its 10 pages so...

 

[Calvin45]

Ignore me if you need to. I don't agree with you but won't ignore what you have to say as that's not how I operate with people. It's ironic that you're educating people on maturity and responsibility as you see it in literally the same post in which you explicitly state that those who oppose you're point of view will just have the ignore button clicked on them. Just something to think about….

For myself, I have 4 young children, am a student, and work for a living (at the moment I'm in between work but the point is there's never been a hunting season in my adult life where I haven't been working and needed in other capacities as well. I don't typically get a lot of time to go hunt and I've only failed to fill my tag once. I don't come home empty handed. I appreciate a fine specimens but honestly couldn't care less about trophies and do not see these creatures as "trophies". More of a "kill and eat" situation if we're throwing Christianity into this conversation as some have here (I was a pastor for the last 8 and a half years, doesn't bother me but good grief trying to make analogies between spiritual growth and one's philosophy of hunting.,.okay…). I make no apologies for filling my deep freeze often with the first animal I have a clean shot at. I've learned a lot from many of your posts and YouTube videos and don't intend any disrespect. I do feel, as a former preacher, that you're entirely too "preachy" here.

 

[RockyMtnUT]

Soo, does this mean I won't get a discount on a tangent theta?

 

[Idaho Lefty]

My Family has been Hunting Big Game for, Decades and have Killed MANY, Deer, Elk , Moose & Antelope and let me tell you, a little known Fact,..
Huge, Ruttin', so called, "Trophy" Pronghorns,.. ARE, the WORST tasting, Meat,.. We've ever, had !
Gimme, the smaller Bucks and Doe Antelope to,.. EAT !

 

[Hirschi1]

I agree with most of your opinion. I also agree partly with someone who said some areas don't and won't grow trophy's. A trophy is different for most everyone.
Here is a part of the problem; it is our states Management teams. If animals are not being harvested then they allot more tags.
I've suggested in rack meetings that we split units into trophy, non-trophy. For example mule deer meat hunters can take bucks legal too 16" width. Trophy hunters can take bucks 24" and bigger. Give a 2 inch grace measurement. This would allow most 2 year olds and some 3 year old to be passed. To commit meat hunters to live by what they tell us and trophy hunters from harvesting a meat buck on the last day of the hunt. So as I apply for a unit I would have the choice to apply for a meat tag, or trophy tag but, not the option to harvest either.

This would also help keep the rancher off the states back. This would help in general units in Utah.
I know that this idea has holes. One being that a hunter might and could shoot a buck that does not fit the criteria of they're tag.

I believe this could also work with other species.

Don't kill me for having these thoughts, but I'm with the original poster. My family's commitment is a first year hunter can harvest any legal buck. Then 4 point or better, odd antlers, or stag.

What would need to be worked out is the percentage of tags for meat and trophy. This is a fun and worthy topic to discuss.

Hunt hard and shoot straight.

 

[billflangjr813]

I'm going to stay out of this!!

 

[Quintus]

I have been keeping up with this thread and trying to understand what bothers me about the original post. It is not the tone. Orkan is in my view a passionate person that is frustrated with the evolution of American society as it currently devolves. It bleeds into everything and I think most are frustrated with it in one or several aspects. What bothers me is there is no solution stated to abate his frustration. an action is requested, simple straight forward - learn to judge bucks on the hoof. Ok, but to what end? There is no further guidance. What is the requirement? Is it a measurement of sag of belly below the sternum line combined with inches, hooks and cutter depth and length? There is a clear problem stated but not a clear solution. I had a Staff Sergeant in the Marine Corps that would listen to a problem with tactical theory or methodology, but if you brought the problem, you better bring a workable solution to the table. Thought out and actionable. What are the acceptable attributes of an acceptable buck?

 

[Deleted member 123841]

Brah…this thread…lol

 

[orkan]

I have been keeping up with this thread and trying to understand what bothers me about the original post. It is not the tone. Orkan is in my view a passionate person that is frustrated with the evolution of American society as it currently devolves. It bleeds into everything and I think most are frustrated with it in one or several aspects. What bothers me is there is no solution stated to abate his frustration. an action is requested, simple straight forward - learn to judge bucks on the hoof. Ok, but to what end? There is no further guidance. What is the requirement? Is it a measurement of sag of belly below the sternum line combined with inches, hooks and cutter depth and length? There is a clear problem stated but not a clear solution. I had a Staff Sergeant in the Marine Corps that would listen to a problem with tactical theory or methodology, but if you brought the problem, you better bring a workable solution to the table. Thought out and actionable. What are the acceptable attributes of an acceptable buck?

I brought a problem, and a solution. You're asking why... which is not the same as claiming I didn't provide a solution.

At least you're thinking. So, you definitely get it.

 

[ClearCreek]

Pronghorn can easily be aged to 4 years old by incisor replacement, after that a tooth would have to be extracted and a cross-section of the tooth examined to determine age.

I have aged hundreds, probably a few thousand pronghorn, and I have seen many, many pronghorn bucks like the one in the photo below that are at least 4 years old. For someone to take a look at that buck on the hoof and say he is 3 years old and a hunter should pass him up is just fooling themselves.

The animal could be 3 or 4 or 5 or even 6. Until you can look at his incisors you would not know if he is less than 4 years old or at least 4 years old.

ClearCreek