Let’s talk reloading

[Mickp7]

In the beginning of this video, I wasn't surprised at some of the opinions. I was surprised by their take on bullet seating and powder testing. For the most part, they are saying it's a waste of time and either the bullet/ powder works or it doesn't.

There's more to it in the podcast, but I think that's the nutshell of their approach.

Curious if others have taken this approach of simplicity to their loading and, if so, how many shots do you use to prove a load.

 

[marksman1941]

My brother espoused that notion and I've come to accept it too. Especially powder charges. If 40.5gr works but 40.0 and 41.0gr doesn't work, then the moment you have temp variation you're out of whack again. If a range of charges works, then you've got something to work with. I am no benchrest shooter, just amateur at best, but it seems to me that if a bullet/powder combo is picky then it isn't worth messing with.

General rule of thumb (for us) is to pick your bullet and powder you wanna run, pick a load in the top 50-75% of the book, set your bullet seating depth as book COAL, and see what happens. If it works try some variations around it to make sure it's not picky. If it doesn't work, move on to a different combo.

We over complicate the hell out of it, and there's aspects that really make a big difference (brass prep for example seems to be huge) but for general 1moa accuracy, it's not too hard.

 

[The Oregonian]

My brother espoused that notion and I've come to accept it too. Especially powder charges. If 40.5gr works but 40.0 and 41.0gr doesn't work, then the moment you have temp variation you're out of whack again. If a range of charges works, then you've got something to work with. I am no benchrest shooter, just amateur at best, but it seems to me that if a bullet/powder combo is picky then it isn't worth messing with.

General rule of thumb is to pick your bullet and powder you wanna run, pick a load in the top 75% of the book, set your bullet seating depth as book COAL, and see what happens. If it works try some variations around it to make sure it's not picky. If it doesn't work, move on to a different combo.

We over complicate the hell out of it, and there's aspects that really make a big difference (brass prep for example seems to be huge) but for general 1moa accuracy, it's not too hard.

Maybe this step was implied, but I wouldn't feel comfortable picking a load in the top 75% of the book. I start at the bottom of the range, one shot then another 1/2 to full grain up, and keep going to find pressure.

You will also likely get more responses in the reloading forum.

 

[Mickp7]

I guess part of it depends on your goals.
My assumptions are you're using a quality barrel and you're looking to optimize the accuracy. +/- .5 moa is the benchmark I try to achieve in my hunting rifles. Heavy rigs I want to see < .5 moa.
My understanding and limited experience is that achieving this level of consistency comes from incremental testing in charge weights and seating depth.
The Berger engineers and guys like Mark Gordon from Short Action Customs talk about seating depth tests from .010 to .150 or more. Then these guys from Hornady say set it +/- .030 and forget it.
I'll happily try it out, but am definitely curious what others have found.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I more or less do this now days. Do a quick single shot powder charge ladder for velocity/pressure check, load 10 50ish thou off the lands a fair margin below pressure, shoot. If it sucks and I really want to use that bullet I'll try another powder.

Most of the results from little charge weight and seating depth changes amounts to noise that isn't repeatable.

 

[stiff neck]

Miles Neville, Hornady Engineer: Averages 1/2 to 3/4 moa groups at 100 yards with his custom PRS rifle, the most accurate rifle he and his buddies have ever shot. They can literally build anything they want in their custom shop.

Erik Cortina: (smirks) "That just isn't good enough." Unquote. Believe the Target, episode #117.

That pretty much sums it up. The Hornady guys are amatures, despite their fancy job titles. Job titles mysteriously don't win world championships or set records. Why is that?

 

[Chesterrose79]

Miles Neville, Hornady Engineer: Averages 1/2 to 3/4 moa groups at 100 yards with his custom PRS rifle, the most accurate rifle he and his buddies have ever shot. They can literally build anything they want in their custom shop.

Erik Cortina: (smirks) "That just isn't good enough." Unquote. Believe the Target, episode #117.

That pretty much sums it up. The Hornady guys are amatures, despite their fancy job titles. Job titles mysteriously don't win world championships or set records. Why is that?

I agree 100%. I wonder how many top placing benchrest shooters pick a bullet then pick a powder load 10 up if it shoots .75 caller good. There's a reason they do meticulous brass prep and load testing.

Miles mentioned that some things are going to give you a slightly better result equaling a tenth of an inch in the group so the time invested isn't worth it.Well that's the difference of a win or loss in benchrest or f class. In hunting applications or even prs that will probably work fine because theres other factors at play that will cause you to miss other than your .75" gun.

 

[stiff neck]

Puzzling that a Hornady project engineer haphazzardly takes a stab in the dark at load development and calls it good enough, instead of working it over for top accuracy. For brand name bragging rights if nothing else. Is it ignorance? Dunning-Kruger? Click bait? Good advice for a begginner reloader? Waste of my frigging time if they are sincere in their declarations.

 

[Huntnful]

Yeah I don't do all the razzle dazzle anymore either. Once you know your charge weights for a given cartridge, load a little under pressure and .010 off or .010 jam.

I'm positive at this point that the MAJORITY of the accuracy comes from consistent brass prep. Not micro adjustments to the load.

I have shot quite a few 5 shot sub 1/2 MOA groups at 600 yards with zero load development. Just good rifles and good reloading practices.

It would take a significant amount of shooting to prove that you actually made a legitimate improvement on a 5 shot 1/2 MOA 600 yard group by tweaking a load.

I like to reference F class reloading also. But they are taking everything to the Nth degree for very very minor improvements over just their baseline load with no development. And they have a 30lb platform to repeat it and prove it consistently. And then they are using tuners on top of that still. Your 8lb magnum that you changed a seating depth and got it to shoot one .4" group all of the sudden, doesn't mean anything until you repeat it quite a few times.

 

[stiff neck]

Miles later admitted their reloading podcast is aimed at typical common beginner level reloaders tinkering around in the garage, NOT high level performers. It's "Reloading For Dummies", not reloading for experts.

But I disagree that all beginners are dummies. I read reloading and competition forums like this one for several years before I bought my first press and actually started. I had a solid knowledge base on day one and was interested only in tiny groups. I did not start on level 1.

 

[7mm man]

I more or less do this now days. Do a quick single shot powder charge ladder for velocity/pressure check, load 10 50ish thou off the lands a fair margin below pressure, shoot. If it sucks and I really want to use that bullet I'll try another powder.

Most of the results from little charge weight and seating depth changes amounts to noise that isn't repeatable.

I am practically doing the same thing. I never spend time testing seating depth. If I can get under an inch with 3 or 4 three round groups and I like the velocity, done. I will tinker with bullet choice a bit just for fun, but I buy new guns/builds like underwear, on to the next.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

..the simpler the better, especially with cluttering up your bench with stuff you don't need....no need to have 10 powders when 2 will do just fine...and if your just loading to recreationally shoot or hunt don't drive yourself nuts over the little things..your target areas are big enough. The one thing you must learn to do is trim your brass to keep things functioning smoothly..

 

[marksman1941]

..the simpler the better, especially with cluttering up your bench with stuff you don't need....no need to have 10 powders when 2 will do just fine...and if your just loading to recreationally shoot or hunt don't drive yourself nuts over the little things..your target areas are big enough. The one thing you must learn to do is trim your brass to keep things functioning smoothly..

I didn't understand that brass prep mattered more than everything else. I loaded up some 223 that was well within safe margins, but I hadn't trimmed the brass. Ended up with a couple pierced primers which was a head scratcher until I realized that everything was over length. I have since refined my process to spend more time on brass prep than anything else.

 

[birddog 68]

The Berger engineers and guys like Mark Gordon from Short Action Customs talk about seating depth tests from .010 to .150 or more. Then these guys from Hornady say set it +/- .030 and forget it.

I'm now in the seating depth test camp. I do a mid weight powder charge with said bullet and seat in .020 increments until the rifle tells me it likes the depth. I then work that powder up to pressure and then back off a bit once finding it. I've even changed to a different powder once I find seating depth and it still shot well.
Everyone has a method that works for them but it's interesting to try something different and see if it works for you.