Lead poisoning from eating game shot with lead core bullets?

[Canhunter35]

I lived through the steel versus lead debate and saw first hand what the results were.
With birds, lead had an effect because some of the birds actually eat the pellets/bullet fragments because they don't know the difference and get sick.

With ducks, they pick up the shot if they feed on the bottom and if it is hard they may pick up a few, but most of the time ducks they are in mud bottoms and the shot sink well below their reach in the mud. The big change came with increased losses in game birds, and more loses in animals. When we were forced to switch to steel shot, populations of both ducks and the scavengers went down.

In some areas, lead did effect the populations of scavengers but a lot of this problem stemmed from
Game not being recovered with more effort.

The difference with game animals shot with a rifle is a totally different scenario. because we don't normally eat the wound channel area because of the quality and the fact that it is blood shot. If you do a proper job of processing the game you will probably never ingest even a small piece of lead if any.

It's a case of one in a million events, becoming an every day problem created by those that don't want us to hunt or shoot and in realty, It becomes the leads fault and you must be protected from it just like the gun it's self.

Clean your game properly and don't worry about something that is non existent. Lead poisoning is real so care should be exorcised but eating any heavy metals can be bad for you
so don't eat bullets or the effected areas and live long.


J E CUSTOM

Well said, birds are difficult with big game don't eat the shot meat,..simple

the beauty of hunting is we get to completely prepare our own food how we see fit

 

[FEENIX]

Yep, it will definitely a 20-pager+!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Yes, it has everything to do with it because the type of bullet determines how much fragmented lead is dispersed in the meat.

I am not certain this is true at all. While interesting and potentially insightful, if people are getting poisoned, they are getting poisoned regardless of the branding.

 

[Jon Bischof]

At the bottom of the primer of the NPS/Pinnacles Campground website, it recommends further reading on lead studies, one of which covers specific bullets ...

https://www.nps.gov/pinn/learn/natu...th Bullet Fragmentation in Deer and Sheep.pdf

Thanks Feenix. I read it and it confirms that the type of bullet used determines how much lead is dispersed. But I was surprised and frankly dumbfoundead that the study and its conclusions failed to recommend the one thing that every Hunter should do to limit lead ingestion. they no where mentioned it and it really shocked me that so obvious a solution would have been so studiously avoided. Simply throw away all the meat in a fairly generous diameter around the bullet holes and through the bullet path. I never eat any of the meat in the area where the bullet has passed through. The fact that they didn't suggest this simple and historically practiced solution shows that the study had an agenda that they wanted to push.

 

[Jon Bischof]

I am not certain this is true at all. While interesting and potentially insightful, if people are getting poisoned, they are getting poisoned regardless of the branding.

According to the study Feenix posted and common sense, you are wrong. Type of bullet had everything to do with how much lead is dispersed into the meat. I use Federal Fusion bullets partly for this reason. Their copper jackets are electrochemically bonded to their lead cores so that they cannot separate from the lead. Of course, Fusion is not the only bullet I use and they are not available to reloaders. The best thing hunters can do is to cut away the meat surrounding the bullet path and throw it away. I know there are many hunters who like to shoot through both shoulders to "break down" the animal. I have tried it that way and I have settled upon a better way for me. I aim for the HIGH behind the shoulder shot that shocks the central nervous system (spinal cord) to put the animal down instantly. Sometimes I may lose a little backstrap, but usually if I do it just right, I lose no meat at all and I ingest no lead at all because I throw away everything in the vicinity of the bullet path. Every hunter should do that no matter where their preferred aimpoint may be.

 

[FEENIX]

Thanks Feenix. I read it and it confirms that the type of bullet used determines how much lead is dispersed. But I was surprised and frankly dumbfoundead that the study and its conclusions failed to recommend the one thing that every Hunter should do to limit lead ingestion. they no where mentioned it and it really shocked me that so obvious a solution would have been so studiously avoided. Simply throw away all the meat in a fairly generous diameter around the bullet holes and through the bullet path. I never eat any of the meat in the area where the bullet has passed through. The fact that they didn't suggest this simple and historically practiced solution shows that the study had an agenda that they wanted to push.

That's the problem, everyone thinks a study "should" answer ALL our questions. That is simply NOT the case, as I previously noted, there are always limitations and assumptions. If you look at the front page, there is a caveat to the preliminary assessment of the study ...

This generates a research gap(s) for future recommendations or studies for researchers to have the opportunity to add to the knowledge base, including counter-argument(s), and the scholarly, academia, or and the research communities understand that. That is simply the nature of "any" research studies, including the longitudinal type research studies, whether "we" are able and willing to accept it or not. This is why I said, it is up to the reader to synthesize the information being presented.

Cheers!

 

[Jon Bischof]

That's the problem, everyone thinks a study "should" answer ALL our questions. That is simply NOT the case, as I previously noted, there are always limitations and assumptions. If you look at the front page, there is a caveat to the preliminary assessment of the study ...

View attachment 199804

This generates a research gap(s) for future recommendations or studies for researchers to have the opportunity to add to the knowledge base, including counter-argument(s), and the scholarly, academia, or and the research communities understand that. That is simply the nature of "any" research studies, including the longitudinal type research studies, whether "we" are able and willing to accept it or not. This is why I said, it is up to the reader to synthesize the information being presented.

Cheers!

So, if I could add one thing to the conclusion of the study, (it is otherwise pretty good) it is that the most beneficial thing hunters can do is cut away and discard all meat around the bullet path. They fact they didn't mention the obvious solution to prevent lead ingestion shows that the study was done to support those who want to ban lead bullets. There's no way they didn't know about it. They just don't want us to know about it.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I will say that we did not start making pure copper bullets because of any issues with lead other than excessive meat damage. I personally am not in favor of lead banning legislation. I do often say that there is no good reason to eat lead. I have never researched it much, because it was not my reason for moving away from lead core bullets, but what I see is the lead is near liquid and when impacted at high vel it changes into a mist that goes who knows where. Are these particles small enough to be absorbed? I don't know. I like others on here have eaten more game taken with lead than the average person. I also used to carry split shot in my mouth when I was a kid fishing because I didn't have pockets in my shorts. Just think how smart I would be today if I had not done that!

Here is a scenario to ponder. Let's say you are seated in a nice restaurant and the waiter comes to the table and offers you water. He gives you a choice of two waters, one that is pure and one that is slightly lead contaminated. Which one would you choose?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have a question. Is the push for lead ban for human health or birds? I guess I always thought it was to do with end food chain birds.

I was recently contacted by a guy doing a documentary on the effects of lead on the big birds of prey. After talking with him for a while I agreed to meet with him. I made it clear that I wanted nothing to do with the film if it has any kind of an anti hunting bent or pushing for legislation against lead for hunting. He assured me that it would not and that I would be able to view the film before it is published and I could pull out of it if I wanted to.

In our discussion it came out that the thinking of lead levels in the birds comes more form varmint hunting where the entire animal is left and completely consumed by the birds. I look forward to seeing the research. I know years ago when the banned PCP (I think that is right) in pesticides due to it causing thin egg shells for the raptors, it resulted in a great come back for the birds.

 

[Tiny Tim]

I have a question. Is the push for lead ban for human health or birds? I guess I always thought it was to do with end food chain birds.

I was recently contacted by a guy doing a documentary on the effects of lead on the big birds of prey. After talking with him for a while I agreed to meet with him. I made it clear that I wanted nothing to do with the film if it has any kind of an anti hunting bent or pushing for legislation against lead for hunting. He assured me that it would not and that I would be able to view the film before it is published and I could pull out of it if I wanted to.

In our discussion it came out that the thinking of lead levels in the birds comes more form varmint hunting where the entire animal is left and completely consumed by the birds. I look forward to seeing the research. I know years ago when the banned PCP (I think that is right) in pesticides due to it causing thin egg shells for the raptors, it resulted in a great come back for the birds.

Interesting point of view I never considered as there isnt much "varmint hunting" done in my area. And I think the pesticide was DDT. I think PCP was "angel dust". But I could be wrong.

 

[FEENIX]

So, if I could add one thing to the conclusion of the study, (it is otherwise pretty good) it is that the most beneficial thing hunters can do is cut away and discard all meat around the bullet path. They fact they didn't mention the obvious solution to prevent lead ingestion shows that the study was done to support those who want to ban lead bullets. There's no way they didn't know about it. They just don't want us to know about it.

Sorry but you cannot add your conclusion to someone else's study. That's what future research study does. You too have the opportunity to counter the study's claim. You made an assumption the researchers did not know, what you think is obvious. Like I previously noted, I am in no position to criticize a researcher's work.

 

[Troutslayer2]

If you go to a field and vaporize like 500 gophers or ground squirrels using lead bullets, and you drive by that field for a week there will be dozens of bald and golden eagles cleaning them up. I have always wondered who we are kidding by claiming that those eagles are not ingesting lead. Maybe it's good for them I don't know, but you can't tell me they are not consuming it.

 

[FEENIX]

Here is a scenario to ponder. Let's say you are seated in a nice restaurant and the waiter comes to the table and offers you water. He gives you a choice of two waters, one that is pure and one that is slightly lead contaminated. Which one would you choose?

L L!

I made it clear that I wanted nothing to do with the film if it has any kind of an anti hunting bent or pushing for legislation against lead for hunting. He assured me that it would not and that I would be able to view the film before it is published and I could pull out of it if I wanted to.

Yep! There is supposed to be a signed informed consent form before any study starts and you can withdraw from it at any time if you change your mind.

 

[Aussieshooter]

Is this a thing?? Sounds nuts to me, but a member of this forum is claiming its dangerous. I have checked with google and couldn't find anything substantive to support the claim.

Let's look at this logically.
You don't eat the bullet
When dressing ducks you remove the shot
So how can you get lead poisoning
I've been been a hunter for over 50 years and I'm still ok.