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Lead poisoning from eating game shot with lead core bullets?

DNADave,

What do you think of "Genitic Entropy And The Mystery Of The Genome"?

Rich, I must confess to not having read this book. I'm not sure I agree with at least one of his tenants, at least from reading the synopsis on Amazon, and that relates to genomes moving toward a state of entropy. I don't want to derail this thread (but I would like to move it back to useful discussion if possible), so send me a PM if you want to discuss.
 
This research is about as far out in left field as they come. I have numerous hours in statistics, ( inferential statistics, 2-way ANOVA, and regression analysis), with a 5.0 average. These jack-asses that conduct and distribute false information drives me nuts. Their models are so flawed that they are nowhere near valid. I can still remember these idiots that dropped out of statistics because they could not grasp what was going on. Always keep in mind; "statistics don't lie,.... but liars use statistics". I would love to get my hands on this "research model" and show them how invalid it actually is, probably starting with their validity level. They are NUTS!

Impressive! Any of the studies and models or theoretical frameworks used by these wonderful researchers (😇) are not top secret. "If" you (or anyone for that matter) really want to prove them wrong you can, and when you get your validation peer-reviewed, accredited, and published, please do share. I would love to have a copy of such a publication. Cheers!
 
Stimulating discussion. Anyway, shoot lead, copper, or iron, drink from scotch bottles sealed with lead foil from lead crystal glasses, as we'll all be dead from global warming in a little over 10 years anyway. At least THAT science is settled. 😂
 
Passing laws to protect the ignorant does not promote freedom, it only promotes more ignorance.
Or, as a VP of our company once told me "Brad, if we keep idiot proofing every thing around here, one day all we will have is a bunch of idiots working for us!"

Everything in life is a choice between benefits/risks - lets quit bubble wrapping these children and help them grow wise as they grow old!
I agree completely.
 
I grew up pinching split shot lead sinkers onto fishing line with my teeth. I've been eating lead-bullet and shot-killed game for all of my 70+ years. We played with mercury when we could get it, and child labor involved driving tractors with boom sprayers through a mist of herbicide all day until our clothes were wet with the stuff. (years later we called it "agent orange.") Our dental visits gave us more mercury in our tooth fillings. We cleaned our hands with any solvent we could find. If we didn't have casts, slings, bruises, burns, rashes, critter bites and occasional concussions we just weren't playing hard enough or having any fun. A few of us died along the way; a few of us became escape artists (lucky) and some of us learned to calculate before taking risks. If we had minded all the rules, we would today be healthy and so full of **** and vinegar that today's kids couldn't stand us. "Hey, Grampaw has a new recipe for Black Powder! C'mon ... he's gonna teach us how to blow ourselves up!"
 
I don't know of any medical articles stating you must get all bullet fragments and shotshell pellets out of patients. Most of the scum balls shot by honest people and police that leave our operating room have retained lead and I have never read a single report of lead poisoning of any of these people. This comes from 38 years of working in a trauma center. We all know Chuck Schumer would be reduced to tears on the senate floor if these unfortunate souls were were left to such a horrible lingering death as lead poisoning. We would routinely hear of this as another reason all guns should be banned. It seems odd, except that it comes from California, that lead is banned in the state that has already lost its mind when that is the target organ for lead poisoning. Stepping off of soap box to end rant.
 
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I have seen the x-rays of game shot with lead core bullets. It was an eye opener. Since then I have only used all copper bullets to hunt with. No idea if it will help, however, I figure I am killing enough brain cells in other ways. No need to add to the problem. If I were to continue to turn my brain into mush at an accelerated rate I might end up a liberal.
 
I'm not a scientist but I have experience reading technological and scientific papers. That being said;

Your first link was a valid study result but it really didn't prove that animals taken with bullets were a potential source of health threatening lead poisoning. There are several points that I think make the study questionable.

1. The study says that all weapons used to take the animals were 7mm Mag rifles using 150gr cup and core style ammunition. Toward the end of the paper they mention that some of the meat used to feed the pigs with had bird shot in it. Just how accurate was their data when they claim that only bullets were used and yet they offhandedly mention that bird shot was in the meat.

2. Their experimental method was to take game killed and field dressed by average hunters to a game processor who then processed the meat and then they fed the contaminated meat (identified by radiographic methods) to pigs. They then tested the lead levels in the pigs for 8 days after being fed the meat.

A. They didn't verify that the meat that they turned in was the same meat that they received from the processors - could that explain why they found shotgun pellets in some of the meat that was, supposedly, all taken with 7mm Mag rifles.​
B. They fed the pigs almost 3 pounds of meat in one 24 hour day. Even accounting for the weight differences between the pigs and the average person, that would mean that we would have to eat around 1 1/2 lbs of contaminated meat in one day. Who eats 1 1/2 lbs of meat in a day. And even if you do eat that much meat in a day, how much would actually be contaminated with lead from a kill, I suspect not as much as what those pigs were fed.​
C. Their final conclusion was that the pigs that ate the contaminated meat showed lead blood levels of as high as 3.8 micro-gram/dL for one pig with an average of around 2.2 micro-gram/dL . The report states that the CDC says that lead blood levels in children becomes dangerous at 10 micro-gram/dL . What's more, the pigs only showed the higher levels for the about 3 days after ingesting the meat. So, in order to reach the CDC level that is dangerous for a child, the child would have to eat an average of 5 1/2 lbs of meat in a 24 hour period every three days in order to sustain a health threatening blood lead level. For an adult we would probably have to eat much more. And we would have to ensure that all of that meat was contaminated with lead. I find that pretty hard to imagine.​

I couldn't get to your second link, I don't know if it is dead or if my security software prevented me from getting to it but I couldn't check it out.

Your third link required me to pay for the report and I'm not about to do that so I couldn't read it but the summary that was available for free states that the report concludes that


That's not really anything that seems to be news to anybody that hunts game nor does it seem to conclude that eating game could cause lead poisoning.

Your fourth link doesn't really prove anything, it's just a summary of other papers and studies, it's simply a reference resource for the The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (MDNR). Quoting from other studies doesn't prove anything without including the process and conclusions.
Shot numerous animals and had processed and processed alot on my own. My dad had all his processed while I was a kid. Its total ******** as far as I am concerned. Another scare tactic to rid lead. Kind of like R-12 refrigerant, it was horrible bad but make and use it. Buy it anywhere. Just a scare tactic to buy something else.
 
As I read the post by folks who have been eating lead killed game for the last hundred years and know they have not suffered any ill effects reminds me of the folks who have forty rifles all with scopes and none have ever had a problem.

I think, if there were any ill effects they wouldn't know it just like the guy with forty rifles.:rolleyes:
 
As I read the post by folks who have been eating lead killed game for the last hundred years and know they have not suffered any ill effects reminds me of the folks who have forty rifles all with scopes and none have ever had a problem.

I think, if there were any ill effects they wouldn't know it just like the guy with forty rifles.:rolleyes:

Agreed! I think people are hung up on not knowing the difference ...

1. Q: Does lead poisoning exist? A: Yes! Some of us acknowledge it, some just plain refuse to but it might have something to do with #2.

2. Q: Does the lead toxicity levels enough to have a harmful effect (long-term/short-term)? A: Unless a person has immune problems, probably not (at least not at the moment). This is why most of us that have been eating wild games harvested with lead bullets are still alive today.

Failure to recognize the difference between the two, it will definitely put us to at least a 20-pager. 😇
 
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Its obvious that for some, it's like politics, divisive. We all choose to believe as we wish and we all ought respect others opinions. If we are students, we will acknowledge we don't know it all but can learn, even from differing views. Yet we are all here to learn and share a wealth of knowledge and experience to further our sport and our abilities. Let's keep that in focus.
 

Switched to Barnes years ago. I recall a video of an xray of a deer shot with a lead core bullet and it looked like lead pellets all thru it. That convinced me. I'll try to find the video again.
 
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