Killing Elk out to 1000 yards with a 300 WM

[HRM Johnny]

Congratulations on your cow. Thanks for the post.

 

[mnoland30]

My question is what range finder do you use that will give you a range at that distance?

 

[William W.]

Looking through my Berger bullet catalog, I don't seem to be able to find a 30 caliber hunting bullet in the 215 grain category. Kindly tell me which one you are using.

 

[CoachChris]

Looking through my Berger bullet catalog, I don't seem to be able to find a 30 caliber hunting bullet in the 215 grain category. Kindly tell me which one you are using.

Berger Hybrid Target

30 Caliber 215 Grain Hybrid Target Rifle Bullet

Berger Hybrid Target Bullets utilize their industry-leading hybrid ogive, which blends tangent and secant designs to optimize efficiency, reduce wind-drift, and minimize sensitivity to seating depth. The Hybrid Target Bullets are competition proven and a favorite amongst today’s top long range...

bergerbullets.com

 

[William W.]

You have proven my point. Hunting game with target bullets is reprehensible and irresponsible. The only "game" shot with target bullets is humans by snipers.

 

[trhall]

Of course it is, without a recovery ill never know exactly what those bullets did.
I did however see both impacts in my scope as did my spotter, I asked him where I hit before I told him what I saw.
The bull went down Hard and rolled 100 yards before getting back up and walking off.
I told this story to a guy at Gunwerks and he said they've seen bulls take a shot right in the lungs and go for days after weak expansion.
I don't care who believes me, this is what happened
I'm still sick about it

Elk are tricky critters when it comes to locating the vitals. The lungs are heart are much lower than my instinct tells me they are with a lot of open space between the top of the lungs and the spine and this issue gets compounded when they're standing on a steep hillside with odd angles. I often seem to find myself with the crosshairs settling dead center and then have to remind myself to pull it down and center in the bottom third. It doesn't feel natural but if you want center lung that is where they lie.
Situations don't always work out perfectly but I believe that when it comes to killing elk that the first shot is the most important one. They can amp up the adrenalin very quickly and go a very long ways with not much left in the system. They are just one of the toughest animals you'll find in North America when it comes to surviving with what would be a lethal wound for other animals. When you mentioned that he went down hard and rolled down hill a ways before getting back up and walking off I was thinking that sounded like a classic high shoulder shot that was a bit too low to destroy the spine. There have been allot of elk get back up like that from that shot. It can be a devastating one but in my opinion it has little margin for error and that's why I am a crease shooter and not a shoulder guy. Regarding bullets not expanding, make sure you use a wire drill and ensure the tips are clear on your Berger bullets before using them for hunting. I find about 2 or 3 in every 50 of the 215 Hybrids that are plugged and those I just color with a black sharpie and set aside for target shooting.
It's heart breaking to lose an animal like that and it sounds like you did everything you could to try and recover it. Your other post shows that you definitely put the effort in to tune your shooting skills. My only suggestion would be to have an open mind to the possibility that your shots might not have impacted and traversed exactly where you thought. I'm sure this event will haunt you for a long time but I hope you don't give up.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family. Best of luck in 2021.

 

[trhall]

You have proven my point. Hunting game with target bullets is reprehensible and irresponsible. The only "game" shot with target bullets is humans by snipers.

Thanks for your opinion Bill but I guess I'll just continue down my Deplorable path and keep on killing critters with a "target" bullet that's **** effective.

 

[trhall]

If he dropped at the shot then got up and kept going, I'd bet on a high shot. A meat shot just below the spine. Enough shock to drop them, but no vitals to kill them. I like the 215 Berger but I did see one pencil hole through a cow. Luckily it was a heart shot and she went less than 100yds still. All most of us use is Bergers, but they don't drop elk with a good shot usually. A heart or lung shot with a Berger is typically a 50 yd run and they fall over. When I see one drop, its hit high enough to shock the spine.
I have heard reports on bullet failures from customers literally on every bullet on the market. I think is just very hard to make a bullet work from point blank to 1000yds.

I have the same opinion on the shoulder hit Alex. I've been using the Berger 210's and then the 215's for over 12 years. Myself, friends and family have killed many elk with them in that time. A few have dropped where they stood, usually found it hit a rib going in and out and I think that transferred more energy and shock. Many have stood humped up or walked slowly and another one puts them down quickly. Some go on the short death run you mentioned and as you say never more than 50 yards or so.
You can search this forum and others and find bullet failure stories on about every make and model of bullet out there. I personally believe the majority of those stories around Berger bullets are the results of a bad hit that wasn't exactly the same trajectory as the shooter thought or a plugged tip when it comes to people talking about them penciling through. I have never experienced either but I have always been diligent about ensuring the hollow point cavities were clear as Broz put out many years ago.
I may experience a bullet failure at some point but I don't think that would make me change to a totally different bullet. It's kinda like saying the engine blew up so I'll never drive another Dodge again! I'm not really a Dodge fan anyhow but you get the point.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Thanks for your opinion Bill but I guess I'll just continue down my Deplorable path and keep on killing critters with a "target" bullet that's **** effective.

There is several people that think target rounds are hunting rounds. What doses it say on the side of the box. I have wrote about it several times. That several animal that have ran off after being hit with target bullets. They give you better BC and there a reason why. They don't open up like a real hunting bullets does on impact.

 

[trhall]

My question is what range finder do you use that will give you a range at that distance?

I use a Gunwerks G7 BR2 and absolutely love it. I feel it idiot proofs most everything but the wind for me.

 

[trhall]

There is several people that think target rounds are hunting rounds. What doses it say on the side of the box. I have wrote about it several times. That several animal that have ran off after being hit with target bullets. They give you better BC and there a reason why. They don't open up like a real hunting bullets does on impact.

Thanks for your opinion Mike. Not going to change my mind nor that of hundreds of others that use them to great effect.

 

[Send it 284]

Elk are tricky critters when it comes to locating the vitals. The lungs are heart are much lower than my instinct tells me they are with a lot of open space between the top of the lungs and the spine and this issue gets compounded when they're standing on a steep hillside with odd angles. I often seem to find myself with the crosshairs settling dead center and then have to remind myself to pull it down and center in the bottom third. It doesn't feel natural but if you want center lung that is where they lie.
Situations don't always work out perfectly but I believe that when it comes to killing elk that the first shot is the most important one. They can amp up the adrenalin very quickly and go a very long ways with not much left in the system. They are just one of the toughest animals you'll find in North America when it comes to surviving with what would be a lethal wound for other animals. When you mentioned that he went down hard and rolled down hill a ways before getting back up and walking off I was thinking that sounded like a classic high shoulder shot that was a bit too low to destroy the spine. There have been allot of elk get back up like that from that shot. It can be a devastating one but in my opinion it has little margin for error and that's why I am a crease shooter and not a shoulder guy. Regarding bullets not expanding, make sure you use a wire drill and ensure the tips are clear on your Berger bullets before using them for hunting. I find about 2 or 3 in every 50 of the 215 Hybrids that are plugged and those I just color with a black sharpie and set aside for target shooting.
It's heart breaking to lose an animal like that and it sounds like you did everything you could to try and recover it. Your other post shows that you definitely put the effort in to tune your shooting skills. My only suggestion would be to have an open mind to the possibility that your shots might not have impacted and traversed exactly where you thought. I'm sure this event will haunt you for a long time but I hope you don't give up.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family. Best of luck in 2021.

Yep its entirely possible
I will say though, the 195's leave a substantial dent in that 1" steel at 780 yards while the 175 ABLRs left a tiny lead smear.
I'm convinced it was a combination of low energy and weak expansion that failed to create enough hydrostatic shock, and large wound channel on what may have been two slightly less than perfect hits.
Merry Christmas

 

[trhall]

Yep its entirely possible
I will say though, the 195's leave a substantial dent in that 1" steel at 780 yards while the 175 ABLRs left a tiny lead smear.
I'm convinced it was a combination of low energy and weak expansion that failed to create enough hydrostatic shock, and large wound channel on what may have been two slightly less than perfect hits.
Merry Christmas

Some people really like the ABLR. I bought a bunch in .30 and .277 cal when they first came out as everything was hard to get then but they really turned me off when everyone figured out how bad they were lying about the bc so I left them on the shelf in the closet and they're just going to be a last resort for me if I ever need them.

 

[mercerbear]

No, he means just below the spine in the void with no vitals. Many don't like the high shoulder for this reason and often is not a fatal shot even though it drops elk in a dramatic fashion they are still very alive when you get there an hour or three later.View attachment 235362

I drew my first elk tag ever this year and hunted for 3 days out in E Oregon.

On the third day, I ended up getting a shot at 325 yards on a 5 point bull.

I hit him high shoulder with a 200 grain Terminal Ascent in 300WM and he folded on the spot.

We celebrate and walk up to begin dressing him out.

When I get 10 feet from him, he gets up and runs off!

I ran 10 yards to my pack, grabbed my rifle and we took off after him.

He stopped after 50 yards and I was able to hit him in the crease and fold him up for good before he got too far downhill.

I hit the exact void under the spine that you're talking about with my first shot.