Killing Elk out to 1000 yards with a 300 WM

[Mike Matteson]

Twice I have taken off either the front legs of a deer, or the hind legs at the knees. The kept going on a rake, but they didn't stop, but didn't go to far either. I looked at hundreds of wound channels over the years. Some bullets come apart and blood shot the animal. Others pass threw the animal and don't open up at all. Target bullet have thicker jackets to retain there shape, which stabilizes the bullet during there flight down range. That creates far more accurate bullets, but they don't open up. Elk seen to have away of closing up those wounds on the exterior to shut off the bleeding. I know I have track one all day. Be clear not my shooting either. I hate loosing animal no matter who shot the animal. I will help if I am in the area, and come across the problem.

 

[rockytop65]

There is several people that think target rounds are hunting rounds. What doses it say on the side of the box. I have wrote about it several times. That several animal that have ran off after being hit with target bullets. They give you better BC and there a reason why. They don't open up like a real hunting bullets does on impact.

I personally do not use target rounds to kill with but have seen several deer killed with them an they destroy the meat. Also I know several people an have read a lot of post of people shooting animals with hunting bullets. I believe in bullet placement. I do shoot Berger vld hunting bullets in my 300 rum and love them.

 

[hawg chaser]

This description sounds like a Hornady SST. They kill deer dead, but don't expect an exit hole or much blood trail.

I don't think you have any actually first hand experience with the Berger bullets you're referencing, no offense.

Those who have actually put in the work and taken game with the HTs have reported pass throughs and lots of dead animals at all ranges.

Let's not speak of things of which we don't know first-hand. It's dishonest and a disservice to others.

My experience with the sst is a little different than what yours is. I've yet to not have a complete passthrough. Over half the deer I've shot with them were DRT. The rest fell within sight with massive blood trails for the short distance they covered. I've used them with my 6.5 swede and 270 win for a combined 11 harvests, so my experience with them is a little limited. Hopefully they continue to preform like this for me since they both shoot under a 1/2 inch in my rifles.

 

[mercerbear]

My experience with the sst is a little different than what yours is. I've yet to not have a complete passthrough. Over half the deer I've shot with them were DRT. The rest fell within sight with massive blood trails for the short distance they covered. I've used them with my 6.5 swede and 270 win for a combined 11 harvests, so my experience with them is a little limited. Hopefully they continue to preform like this for me since they both shoot under a 1/2 inch in my rifles.

My experience has been with the 123 grain SST in 16" 6.5 Grendel.

Have killed around 20 deer with it and am yet to get a passthrough. The bullet fragments typically end up in the hide on opposite side.

Sounds like heavier bullets at higher velocities are passing through for you.

 

[hawg chaser]

My experience has been with the 123 grain SST in 16" 6.5 Grendel.

Have killed around 20 deer with it and am yet to get a passthrough. The bullet fragments typically end up in the hide on opposite side.

Sounds like heavier bullets at higher velocities are passing through for you.

That could be it. I've used 130's and 140's in the 270 and 140's with the swede.

 

[mercerbear]

I have some 308 Super Performance 150 grain SSTs. I haven't tried them yet.

 

[Calvin45]

That could be it. I've used 130's and 140's in the 270 and 140's with the swede.

My theory that's developing as I follow this is that not all ssts are of similar jacket thickness. Sort of like the Nosler ballistic tip. The 180
Nbt compared to the 168 holds together and penetrates much deeper than a mere 12 grains of extra bullet weight can account for. It's meant to perform at .300 win mag power.

the 123 sst is specifically built around the grendel. When designing projectiles around lower power cartridges like this the big thing to ensure is that they'll still open up at range. The ssts in 270 are probably primarily designed for the .270 win - and weatherby, wsm, not the slower spc, they have a 120 just for that - these cartridges require the emphasis in projectile design to be more about avoiding completely blowing up at normal hunting ranges.

would explain a lot.

 

[hawg chaser]

My theory that's developing as I follow this is that not all ssts are of similar jacket thickness. Sort of like the Nosler ballistic tip. The 180
Nbt compared to the 168 holds together and penetrates much deeper than a mere 12 grains of extra bullet weight can account for. It's meant to perform at .300 win mag power.

the 123 sst is specifically built around the grendel. When designing projectiles around lower power cartridges like this the big thing to ensure is that they'll still open up at range. The ssts in 270 are probably primarily designed for the .270 win - and weatherby, wsm, not the slower spc, they have a 120 just for that - these cartridges require the emphasis in projectile design to be more about avoiding completely blowing up at normal hunting ranges.

would explain a lot.

That sounds very logical. You're probably right.

 

[Bravo 4]

My theory that's developing as I follow this is that not all ssts are of similar jacket thickness. Sort of like the Nosler ballistic tip. The 180
Nbt compared to the 168 holds together and penetrates much deeper than a mere 12 grains of extra bullet weight can account for. It's meant to perform at .300 win mag power.

the 123 sst is specifically built around the grendel. When designing projectiles around lower power cartridges like this the big thing to ensure is that they'll still open up at range. The ssts in 270 are probably primarily designed for the .270 win - and weatherby, wsm, not the slower spc, they have a 120 just for that - these cartridges require the emphasis in projectile design to be more about avoiding completely blowing up at normal hunting ranges.

would explain a lot.

This is my experience as well. The larger caliber SST is more heavily constructed. Also the heavier weights for caliber are less likely to have the jacket separate from the core and so they penetrate further. They have the same ogive and boat tail, just longer shanks. This is shooting dozens of deer with 139, 154, & 162 grain SST from 7mags, 150 & 180 grain .308 cal, 95 grain .243, and 225's from a .338 Edge.

 

[trhall]

That was a great shot, was your chamber throated for the 215 Berger?

Yes it was. I'm getting 3060 fps with 76.7 gr H1000. I'm optimized for bullet seating with the way the throat was reamed by Travis and this is why I get such great velocity.

 

[William W.]

You have no idea what you are talking about. This has been discussed over and over. A label doesn't make a bullet.

Then, please explain why hunting bullets are made by Berger.

 

[Wedgy]

Then, please explain why hunting bullets are made by Berger.

This has been discussed over and over again... and then some more. And then again and again, and now again. The 215 is a fantastic hunting bullet well documented by Broz, someone who shoots over 60 elk a year... year after year.
Berger hunting bullets have thinner jackets and generally explode on impact which is good for soft tissue like heart and lungs but may not penetrate if you hit heavy bone so many have tried, with great success, the heavier jacketed target bullets hoping they will stay together and penetrate better.
Use the search feature or google and you can read about this argument for a few months from previous threads.

 

[trhall]

Then, please explain why hunting bullets are made by Berger.

Use what you like and have confidence in. Understand that your opinion is not going to change the opinions and real world experience of hundreds of other long range hunters that have and will continue to use the 215 Berger Hybrid with great success.
Opinions are like ....... well, you know. We all have them but that doesn't make it fact. You've shared yours as many other have shared theirs. Now we can all go and make our own decisions with the information we have.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I realize you don't know me or what my capabilities are but I take this sport very seriously and don't tell lies.
I shoot out to 1200 yards on my property, and in the past 6 weeks I've put almost 200 rounds through my 7 wsm at long range.
Here's my 4th consecutive sub 2.5" 2 round cold bore group (I shot this one in gusty wind 15 minutes ago) at almost the exact range I shot that bull.
Only difference is I'm using 195's now.
View attachment 235164

Pretty hard to be told "Your lying" but don't be offended. I hit a doe at 1100 yards with a 162 ELDX and from all accounts looked like a perfect hit. My spotter saw the impact and it looked perfect. The deer dropped. When I got to where he was hit, he wasn't down. Blood trail showed he got up and traveled some several hundred yards before dying. Snow made it easy to track. The shot was in the ribs 6" back from where I wanted to hit. Still a vitals shot but back a bit. I've killed deer hit in this spot at 50-500 yards and they always run a little ways but always dead fast. Point being, my spotter said the hit was shoulder or very tight to it. When the deer dropped, he said he assumed it was hit hard in that shoulder area. He saw the impact that looked right there but he was mistaken. Today he still sees that impact thru the spotter and can't believe it was in the rib cage. He didn't lie about the placement, he just believed that's what he saw. The deer dropping in the spot sealed what he thinks he saw. Can't tell you how many deer I lost to a well placed(IMO from what I think I saw) arrow only to track deer close to a mile and blood trail stops. No deer, no recovery, no idea what happened. Gotta believe the shot wasn't where I thought it was. No lie, just a visual deception of what really happened.