Killing Elk out to 1000 yards with a 300 WM

[William W.]

As far as what the manufacturers "know": According to Berger they changed the name on the box to "hunting" from "match" AFTER customers had used the match with great results on game. The .284 Berger 180 Hunting bullet is an excellent choice, which I have seen used successfully many times. The .308 215 Hybrid Target works exactly the same if not better. There is no such thing as a " bona-fide" hunting bullet- they are not magic it's a piece of lead covered copper. Some work better than others use whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

https://bergerbullets.com/history-of-the-match-grade-berger-hunting-vld/[/URL

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As far as what the manufacturers "know": According to Berger they changed the name on the box to "hunting" from "match" AFTER customers had used the match with great results on game. The .284 Berger 180 Hunting bullet is an excellent choice, which I have seen used successfully many times. The .308 215 Hybrid Target works exactly the same if not better. There is no such thing as a " bona-fide" hunting bullet- they are not magic it's a piece of lead covered copper. Some work better than others use whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

History of the Match Grade Berger Hunting VLD

The story of the Berger Hunting VLD is a story of discovery rather than design. The VLD bullet design was created by Ballistician Bill Davis during a project that also involved Dr. Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell of PPC fame. Bill’s goal was to produce a bullet design that performed better in...

bergerbullets.com

Ego-centricity extends to the simple problem of failure to read ...

From Berger: "The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD or Hybrid designs. These designs incorporate a sharp nose and slightly thinner jacket that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13" to 15" long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don't go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. You owe it to yourself to see how accurate and deadly the Berger Hunting VLD will be on your next hunt. To order a free 30 minute video that provides more detail on the bullets, cartridge and velocity used to take several animals at a variety of ranges call 660-460-2802."

 

[William W.]

For those who do think, Berger's literature implies that their HUNTING bullets perform along the lines of a varmint bullet like the 125 grain 30 caliber Speer. Unsaid is what is to be expected for heavy-boned game.

 

[loonie]

There hunting bullets aren't fool proof. This elk shot with 300 grain elite hunter, dead center thru both shoulders from 338 edge. 530 yards.Tips were cleaned. Dime size exit. Ran 400 yards. Would of lost it if shot behind the shoulder. Of 4 elk , 2 penciled and 2 worked good. From the same box of bullets. I don't trust them !!

 

[dogz]

easy peasy, 200 Noz Part, 200 Sierra BT, 200 Accu, 180 NBT

Problem solved

 

[Mike Matteson]

I hold on the crease about center vertical. That's depending on range and angle. Ballistic Tips or AccBond did the trick. The other is I hold my shots to under 500yds. I have shot two elk in the heart, ( both were 300+ yards) with both hearts split from bullet hole to the bottom of their heart. They drop in their tracks.

 

[Mike Matteson]

easy peasy, 200 Noz Part, 200 Sierra BT, 200 Accu, 180 NBT

Problem solved

I have used the 200 Accb in Africa several times. They worked great. Less than 40yds run or dropped in there tracks. My velocity is 3200+fps in a 24". Look it up on FPEng. I realize that Target bullet flight path is far better than the normal hunting rounds, but they don't really open up either or very little. Someday I am going to get my 338 WinMag with a 26" barrel. I am looking forward to work up loads to see what I can do with it.

 

[Wedgy]

There hunting bullets aren't fool proof. This elk shot with 300 grain elite hunter, dead center thru both shoulders from 338 edge. 530 yards.Tips were cleaned. Dime size exit. Ran 400 yards. Would of lost it if shot behind the shoulder. Of 4 elk , 2 penciled and 2 worked good. From the same box of bullets. I don't trust them !!

Wow, that's crazy but at least it travelled straight. A buddy shot his elk same time I did at 1,003 yards with the 300EH from a 9 twist .338 norma broadside taking out the heart and left a 2" exit hole. I wonder what causes the different performance. I feel that insufficient twist rate is the main answer to most perceived bullet "failures", that they aren't spun fast enough to perform once they hit an animal but the will still fly straight and punch a round hole in paper. I'm in a nonlead state so my barrels are fast twist, 7 for the 300RUM, 8 for my Edge, 6.5 for the .264 all custom which is a pain but after lengthy talks with Steve at Hammer Bullets I think that is what explains a lot of crazy things bullets do. Like making a 90 degree turn, folding like a banana, or penciling thru.

 

[Axl]

http://

Ego-centricity extends to the simple problem of failure to read ...

From Berger: "The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD or Hybrid designs. These designs incorporate a sharp nose and slightly thinner jacket that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13" to 15" long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don't go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. You owe it to yourself to see how accurate and deadly the Berger Hunting VLD will be on your next hunt. To order a free 30 minute video that provides more detail on the bullets, cartridge and velocity used to take several animals at a variety of ranges call 660-460-2802."

"Ego-centricity" pertains to you and ALL non shooter/hunters/unable to read people. Do not bother to respond as you are blocked.

 

[mercerbear]

http://

Ego-centricity extends to the simple problem of failure to read ...

From Berger: "The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD or Hybrid designs. These designs incorporate a sharp nose and slightly thinner jacket that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13" to 15" long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don't go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot. You owe it to yourself to see how accurate and deadly the Berger Hunting VLD will be on your next hunt. To order a free 30 minute video that provides more detail on the bullets, cartridge and velocity used to take several animals at a variety of ranges call 660-460-2802."

This description sounds like a Hornady SST. They kill deer dead, but don't expect an exit hole or much blood trail.

I don't think you have any actually first hand experience with the Berger bullets you're referencing, no offense.

Those who have actually put in the work and taken game with the HTs have reported pass throughs and lots of dead animals at all ranges.

Let's not speak of things of which we don't know first-hand. It's dishonest and a disservice to others.

 

[richhymas]

I realize you don't know me or what my capabilities are but I take this sport very seriously and don't tell lies.
I shoot out to 1200 yards on my property, and in the past 6 weeks I've put almost 200 rounds through my 7 wsm at long range.
Here's my 4th consecutive sub 2.5" 2 round cold bore group (I shot this one in gusty wind 15 minutes ago) at almost the exact range I shot that bull.
Only difference is I'm using 195's now.
View attachment 235164

Make sure you clean out the tips of those 195s. I hear lots of people like the 215s more than the 195s because for some reason they are a bit less likely to expand properly. Hopefully clearing out the tips with a welding tip cleaner will reduce the risk of that happening.

 

[richhymas]

You have proven my point. Hunting game with target bullets is reprehensible and irresponsible. The only "game" shot with target bullets is humans by snipers.

You have no idea what you are talking about. This has been discussed over and over. A label doesn't make a bullet.

 

[richhymas]

There hunting bullets aren't fool proof. This elk shot with 300 grain elite hunter, dead center thru both shoulders from 338 edge. 530 yards.Tips were cleaned. Dime size exit. Ran 400 yards. Would of lost it if shot behind the shoulder. Of 4 elk , 2 penciled and 2 worked good. From the same box of bullets. I don't trust them !!

Thanks for sharing. Were the shoulders not broken? How did it run with 2 broken front shoulders? Maybe just a punch through that failed to break the bones? Glad you recovered those. I would have thought that the shoulders would have initiated expansion or that the bones themselves would have acted as shrapnel.

 

[William W.]

You have no idea what you are talking about. This has been discussed over and over. A label doesn't make a bullet.

Per Berger, a thinner jacket makes a hunting bullet!

 

[dogz]

Thanks for sharing. Were the shoulders not broken? How did it run with 2 broken front shoulders? Maybe just a punch through that failed to break the bones? Glad you recovered those. I would have thought that the shoulders would have initiated expansion or that the bones themselves would have acted as shrapnel.

Elk have one heck of a lot of shoulder bone and lot of the shoulder if hit while I'm sure it smarts it doesn't slow them down much...IME, shoulder shots and their ability to put critters on the turf is fairly over played. Not always, but I've seen tons of elk hit in the shoulder and or shoulders and they were still capable of covering ground.