Is it the truth, B.S., B.R., or Ego?? Questions..

[Sako7STW]

Well I am not going to get into a ****ing match with being the newby here but I will throw in my .02 worth on answering Wyo's original question, " what criteria do you base it on?"

My self I have always looked at it as what will my gun hold. My Sako holds 5 with the one in the chamber. Personal hunting experience has told me 3 shots is about max for opportunity to shoot. So I base mine on 3 & 5 shot groups. If it will do .75" in three shots,I am a happy camper, if it will do the same with 5 then I am even happier. I have found that if it doesnt then it is more my inconsistancy than the rifles ability. If it can do it once, it can do it again.

I personally was very impressed with his group. Considering I know where he lives and the teperature conditions he was probably shooting in. I shot 2, 3 shot groups at 100 yards in December with my .243 Win. Just an old Rem 700 BDL Sporter, thats in primo shape, no work done to it, from a bench with heavy duplex hunting scope. The temp was 8 Deg F and there was a mild breeze as well. Needless to say it was COLD. I shot one .55" and the other was .65" measured center to center on widest shots. No fliers left out. Was I happy with this performance? Dang streight I was especially in the conditions. Nothing like wiping snot off your bolt that's frozen! If that target was a speedgoat, it would have been dead. I just hope I can do the same come time to warm up!!!

 

[baldeagle713]

Wyo:
I do not have any photo's of groups off a bipod. The only photo I have is this one. The left chuck was taken at around 300 yrds. One shot.The Right one was taken at 190 yrds. Two shots, I just buzzed his back with the first one.

The way I see the remark ,"Nice group, now try 5". I see it as a way to learn what your gun will do with 5. After ya do 5 try ten. Then you'll know how your gun acts with that meny rounds down the tube in a row.!
If your hunting and ya get in a rush and miss as I have on more than one occasion, you can have confidance that the next shot you'll be headed to retreave what you've been shootin at. Just my two cents. By the way nice shooting. I would like to shoot with ya some time. I think it'd be a HOOT!!!

 

[ghoghunter]

hello guys. my 2 cents. i shoot to do my best with my equipment.its not a 1k gun but sometimes i pretend.ive never had a dead hog complain.and as far as targets proud of some not of others.thats why i keep shooting or at least trying.maybe ill build a bench gun but i wouldent take it in some of the fields ive had my SAVAGEIN

 

[*WyoWhisper*]

Jody,

you available in Aug.? Sure would be fun to have ya here...

Ok guys I posted 2 more groups I shot today.. same scenerio prone/bo-pod

one at 750 and one at 895.. they are in Bullets , Barrels and Balistics...

are they any better? What would be the evaluation of these.. good, bad or Ugly... just be honest with your opinion!

 

[Darryl Cassel]

For the record

I have many times and still do shoot from a bipod on occasion. My lighter LR carry guns have bipods on them.

I feel that with a bipod, your rifle "should" hold 1 MOA "5 shot" groups across the entire course of fire you intend on shooting. That's all that's needed to make the kills on game that we are after.

That would be 1" at 100 yards, 5" at 500 yards and 10" at 1000 yards. Most times at 100 yards to 500 yards they are less then 1 MOA.
All the group sizes mentioned at the various yardages are well within the kill zone of any big game animals we hunt.

Some guns can do better then that from a bipod but, "5 shot" groups and 1 MOA seems to be a standard to go for.

If your rifle does better then that out to 1000 yards, your ahead of the game.
Remember, thats 5 shot groups though, not 3.

Three shot groups should do better then the 1 MOA most every time and at "all" ranges out to 1000 yards. I simply like to work on 5 shots rather then 3 for testing purposes. Those extra 2 shots keeps me on my toes. Many times I've had unreal 3 shot groups and then enlarged it by sending those extra 2 rounds down range. When you do keep all 5 in a small group it is VERY satisfying though.

It really doesnt matter if you shoot 3 shots or 5 shots, as long as the groups are within the kill zone area of the game your after and it will do this at the "range limits" you have placed on your bipod rifle. My limit is 1000 to 1250 yards Max with my 7/300 Weatherby light 12# rifle with 30" barrel and bipod attached.

I "had" a 40X in the 300 win mag that would do better then 1MOA 5 shot groups with a Bipod attached at most ranges to 1000 yards. It was consistant to. I think that rifle cost me $750.00. A fellow down south bought it from me a few years ago.

Later
DC

 

[Brent]

That's what I'm talkin about!

Let's hear some more fella's!

Darryl,
Any difference in expectations of a custom and a factory stick?

 

[jb1000br]

Ric--I think you are after something that doesnt exist. There is no hard and fast rule for validating a rifle.

further, groups from a cold bore are a totally different animal than a warm gun.

I'll put this up for scrutiny:

1K BR gun -- 5-10 shot groups --

HB tactical gun--5 mags full (mag plus one in the hole that is) from a bipod

Varmint gun - 5-5shot groups from a benchrest, then if using a bipod for hunting, 5 groups from a bipod.

sporter/hunting gun - 5 three shot groups, mag fed, cold bore every time.

sound like a good outline?

I really think though, what your after is impossible, and subjective.

Keep shooting and posting, I will, and so can anyone else that wants to back up their mouth

JB

[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: jb1000br ]

 

[*WyoWhisper*]

JB,

I respect what you're saying...
I'm not after somthing etched in stone.. but more of a guideline....

There has been A LOT of postings on here of guys and their groups... some god slighted and some didn't but...

it would be nice for myself and I am positive for the guys getting into this game some guidelines they can go by or work on and know if they are on the right track or not...

I can remember 10 years ago if I hit a softbal size target at 100 yards I was freakin happy .. I thought that was good... If I had a gun like that now I'd sell it to you

....

I'm just looking for a general guidline for the "new" guys and some of us regulars to say..

man X rifle shot a 3,5,7,10 shot group at X distance and it measured X.XXX and be able to say.. hmmm it needs work or hmmm.. I'm right there or.. WOW she's a screemer...

or alternatively.. if you know your rifle shoots... you may need to try a different bullet or a different powder or a different primer..

You group at 300 yards is a great group from a bi-pod... but from a bench I think you might want more.. I think I might look for more.. maybe not... my group at 770 I great, I feel but I know I F'ed up one shot but it is still good... a guy getting into this might think you group should be better or mine too.. but given the circumstances.. they are both great!

ya know what I mean....

 

[jb1000br]

Well i would say starting out, if you can AVERAGE 1MOA with your choice of groups 3,5,10shot, whatever, as they pertain to your objective you are doing very well. WHen you get to a .5MOA AVERAGE with your chosen rifle and course of fire, then you are smokin.

the more shots in the same size group speaks more for the gun/load/prep than the shooter (off a bench)

Bipod shooting mixes a whole other element in that doesnt exist in bench shooting.

They need to be treated differently--your A5 wasnt built for a BR gun, and either was my A3, so i will probably only ever fire it off a bipod.

My new Viper 1K gun though, will never see a bipod. There are just to many objectives out there with different tool to complete them. But as far as general guidelines, that is the best i can do.

Im not sure if this is a satisfactory answer to you query or not, but thats the best i got.

Keep posting targets and encourage others to do it. Posting pictures doesnt mean you think no one else can beat it--it is just something you are proud of.

I was pretty **** proud when my first three shots after click up to 300 actually went to POA and in fact into 3/4" at 300yds--I was impressed, it doesnt matter whether anyone else likes it or not, I do

whew!!!

Ric, I dont think there is an answer to your question, but i tried my best

 

[*WyoWhisper*]

Hmmm OK....
Lemme see


BR rifles
Basically we have
5 shots 1/4 MOA to 500
then .5 MOA to 1000

Hunting rifles (custom)
3-5 shots .5 MOA to 500
then 1.0 MOA to 1000

still a 3-5 shot varialbe ( which hold more weight )

Not much on a factory stick or semi-custom
ie: bedding job, match barrel, etc.
I am assuming...
3-5 shots 1 MOA to 500 then ??

Jody said his shot a 19" group at 1000 thats almost 2 MOA.... But as a reference Boyd said this rifle is a rifle that could out shoot a custom but that is not consitient with the "general concensus" of other opinions and MOA.

Next question shooting from a bi-pod does that allow for a lager acceptable groups size? In my experience is requires as much from the shooter as it does from the rifle...

are we getting close?

 

[BillLarson]

This is a terrific topic....."Hunting Gun"..I make sure my gun will shoot...around [email protected] in similar conditions November weather 30F..I shoot 1 shot a day for 5 days into the SAME target.Leaving my gun and ammo outside at ambient temp.This in my opinion,for a hunting gun..(1 Shot hopefully)tells where you`re at as far as making a long shot in field conditions......Regards...Bill Larson

 

[Agunner012]

Good topic. I am fairly new to the sport, and have a lot to learn. I have learned a lot from this board.

I think the only way to truly prove which shoots best (custom vs factory, BR vs hunting, etc.) is to take the human and wind factors out of the equation. Indoor range 100 yards, rifles shot off a secure rest with a mechanical devise squeezing the trigger. Totally controlled scientific test. Each rifle shooting a tuned load for that particular weapon. (Take all the sport out of it.)

In my limited experience I can say shooting off a bi-pod is a lot harder than shooting off a bench with a good rest and rear sand bag.

Andrew

[ 02-27-2004: Message edited by: Agunner012 ]

 

[Darryl Cassel]

Brent

There are "usually" differances between the factory and custom guns as per accuracy. The customs "should" but, not always, do better from the bench "and" from a bipod. Shooting from a bench with proper fitting front and rear rests will give the "true potential" of the rifle to begin with (in most cases) and that's where I like to start.

The exception to the custom and factory rifle debate goes on and on as I have seen the Sendaros and 40Xs do every bit as good as many light tactical type customs have done. That's why I mentioned 1 MOA minimum for the entire range you intend on shooting and this is for the custom "or" top of the line factory rifles.

As Boyd mentioned, he has seen groups fired from factory guns that are as good or better then some posted here by customs and this is a true statement.
I have to and the Sendaro that Walt Bryan shot at Williamsport in the early years was an example. The 40X 300 Win mag I owned would also do it off a bipod.

As mentioned, in either case, the groups will usually be less then 1MOA if you only shoot 3 shots and this is with "either" the custom of good shooting factory rifle.

I think if we concentrate on just keeping the groups inside of the kill zone area of the game we are after consistantly, and at the range we intend on killing at, is the "most" important factor.
Again the 1 MOA limitation comes into play here. We are NOT trying to break a paper World Record here and fire 5 or 10 shots to achieve it. If we are trying to do that, most certainly a custom built for benchrest is the order of the day and "not" a tactical or factory would be considered at all.

We must all remember, the smaller the group your rifle shoots the better off you will be regardless if it's a custom or top of the line factory.

Practice knowing the potential of your rifle and shooting it all year is the key to making the kills at longrange.

Later
DC

 

[Boyd Heaton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Jody said his shot a 19" group at 1000 thats almost 2 MOA.... But as a reference Boyd said this rifle is a rifle that could out shoot a custom but that is not consitient with the "general concensus" of other opinions and MOA.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes it shot 19" for "10" shots at 1000 yards.But being in the pits all day and watching his target everytime he shoots.I have seen him a number of times put the first 3 or 5 shots well under m.o.a. at that distance..Yes this is from a rest.But IMHO a gun on a bipod is ever bit as stable as trying to shoot a gun like that off a front rest.And Jody's gun is a good shooting factory gun.Not great.Just good.Now Shawn's 300wby is a GREAT shooting factory gun.But thats another story