Boyd Heaton
Well-Known Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Boyd, ya need to work on that a bit... you completely missed the dot! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gotta work on that one
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Boyd Heaton
Well-Known Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I do believe my Factory Coyote in 270 WSM will keep up with that gun of yours at 500 yrds. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jody,I believe your gun would keep up with that gun well past 500 yards.The group Wyo posted was a decent group.But its also a group I would expect out of a good shooting factory gun........
W
*WyoWhisper*
Guest
A GOOD FACTORY GUN??
OK here we go...
Hey guys what part of "prone from a bi-pod don't you get...???"
You guys are shooting form a bench with rests front and rear.....
sheesh...
All you you guys do is read the wind and squeeze once your sighters are identified and confirmed...
Try controling your heart rate and breathing to time the trigger squeeze with reading the conditons and wind.. With your 16 lb+ free recoil rifles that isn't real necessary...
Now throw in a inclination...or better yet a declination.. where do you hold now? And lets just say you don't get a sighter or 10.. lets say you have to make your first shot inside a 10" dia. circle... and you only get one chance.. and your by yourself... no one to call your shot or confirm conditons...
I guess rifles arn't really good rifles unless they shoot at Williamsport for 10 rounds, inside 10"?????
man oh man...
OK here we go...
Hey guys what part of "prone from a bi-pod don't you get...???"
You guys are shooting form a bench with rests front and rear.....
sheesh...
All you you guys do is read the wind and squeeze once your sighters are identified and confirmed...
Try controling your heart rate and breathing to time the trigger squeeze with reading the conditons and wind.. With your 16 lb+ free recoil rifles that isn't real necessary...
Now throw in a inclination...or better yet a declination.. where do you hold now? And lets just say you don't get a sighter or 10.. lets say you have to make your first shot inside a 10" dia. circle... and you only get one chance.. and your by yourself... no one to call your shot or confirm conditons...
I guess rifles arn't really good rifles unless they shoot at Williamsport for 10 rounds, inside 10"?????
man oh man...
milanuk
Well-Known Member
Wyo,
Nah, it's gotta do at worst half MOA under any photo op, wear high $$$ glass, be chambered for a round currently in vogue w/ the LR BR guys, etc. Makes it a little rough for the belly shooters, eh?
All joking aside, I don't think Boyd intended it as a slight. I do understand the frustration, though. Sometimes it seems like the BR shooters have taken over and imposed their standards on the board (i.e. gun/group standards). Not saying that they are wrong, just keep in mind the difference in application btwn what they are doing/saying and what you have planned, and filter the information appropriately. Use what you can, file the rest away for future reference
HTH,
Monte
Nah, it's gotta do at worst half MOA under any photo op, wear high $$$ glass, be chambered for a round currently in vogue w/ the LR BR guys, etc. Makes it a little rough for the belly shooters, eh?
All joking aside, I don't think Boyd intended it as a slight. I do understand the frustration, though. Sometimes it seems like the BR shooters have taken over and imposed their standards on the board (i.e. gun/group standards). Not saying that they are wrong, just keep in mind the difference in application btwn what they are doing/saying and what you have planned, and filter the information appropriately. Use what you can, file the rest away for future reference
HTH,
Monte
Boyd Heaton
Well-Known Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Hey guys what part of "prone from a bi-pod don't you get...???" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ric you take Jody's 270wsm or Butch's 270wsm or Shawn's 300wby factory gun ,put it on a BI-Pod it will do the same thing.Now what part of that don't you get.You get all worked up when someone says something about your group.It's a decent group.Thats all.I am just saying,I would expect a better group out of a full on custom gun.When a group that size could be had with a factory gun.Sheesh
Brent
Well-Known Member
So far, we're talking about one group at 770 yards, I think?? So, I'd expect a factory stick to throw one out that well once in a while too, only a very exceptional one to consistantly shoot that or under though. So what are you really saying Boyd, I'm still not too sure??
Ric you take Jody's 270wsm or Butch's 270wsm or Shawn's 300wby factory gun ,put it on a BI-Pod it will do the same thing.
Consistantly under this, one time, here and there, average over time, or what?
Now what part of that don't you get.
Out on a limb here, but maybe what I asked???
You get all worked up when someone says something about your group.It's a decent group.Thats all.I am just saying,I would expect a better group out of a full on custom gun.When a group that size could be had with a factory gun.Sheesh
I think Ric has posted a few pix to give an idea of how consistant his rig has been performing?? Are you saying there's a problem with Ric's custom rifle because it shot a group like that? I'm still confussed as to what you're really saying in all of this. What you've said can be taken in MANY different ways...
Boyd,
Now, what are "your" guidlines exactly, and why? I think that's what this thread is really all about???
Ric you take Jody's 270wsm or Butch's 270wsm or Shawn's 300wby factory gun ,put it on a BI-Pod it will do the same thing.
Consistantly under this, one time, here and there, average over time, or what?
Now what part of that don't you get.
Out on a limb here, but maybe what I asked???
You get all worked up when someone says something about your group.It's a decent group.Thats all.I am just saying,I would expect a better group out of a full on custom gun.When a group that size could be had with a factory gun.Sheesh
I think Ric has posted a few pix to give an idea of how consistant his rig has been performing?? Are you saying there's a problem with Ric's custom rifle because it shot a group like that? I'm still confussed as to what you're really saying in all of this. What you've said can be taken in MANY different ways...
Boyd,
Now, what are "your" guidlines exactly, and why? I think that's what this thread is really all about???
Boyd Heaton
Well-Known Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>If you havn't thought about getting Chris M. to build you a rifle.. this may be the proof you're after.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now the only proof I see in that picture is that a 2000 dollar custom gun shot one 3 shot 4 something inch group at 770 yards. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Consistantly under this, one time, here and there, average over time, or what?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What I am saying is,all three guns listed above will on average at any distance shoot with Ric's gun. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Are you saying there's a problem with Ric's custom rifle because it shot a group like that? I'm still confussed as to what you're really saying in all of this. What you've said can be taken in MANY different ways...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What I am saying is I would not spend money to have a gunsmith build me a gun because of one decent group <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Boyd,
Now, what are "your" guidlines exactly, and why? I think that's what this thread is really all about???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't quite follow you??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What I am saying is,all three guns listed above will on average at any distance shoot with Ric's gun. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Are you saying there's a problem with Ric's custom rifle because it shot a group like that? I'm still confussed as to what you're really saying in all of this. What you've said can be taken in MANY different ways...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What I am saying is I would not spend money to have a gunsmith build me a gun because of one decent group <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Boyd,
Now, what are "your" guidlines exactly, and why? I think that's what this thread is really all about???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't quite follow you??
Boyd Heaton
Well-Known Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Lets see, this is called "Long Range Hunting" Ever see someone shoot 5 times at a deer, hows about 10 times. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes I have.
Brent
Well-Known Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boyd,
Now, what are "your" guidlines exactly, and why? I think that's what this thread is really all about???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't quite follow you?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ric outlined it in his first post.
I understand where you're coming from on 1 770 yard group, but in all fairness, he has posted a multitude of other groups in previous threads here recently.
$2k "plus", for a rifle like Ric's is nothing new BTW, find one built cheaper then let me know.
Now, do say what should his rig have shot at 770 yards to be worth the expense of the custom price?
What I am saying is,all three guns listed above will on average at any distance shoot with Ric's gun.
On average then. I have not seen how the others shoot, but from my experience with factory sticks, I could say honestly that I have had maybe one rifle that would make Ric pay close attention to how he was shooting, but still not quite meet what he's been getting. Oh, and that was off a bench too.
I'm not sure if you think your luck of getting a 30 cal factory rifle that shoots that good is great, good, poor or what? What DO YOU EXPECT at 770 yards with a factory, and a custom rig?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets see, this is called "Long Range Hunting" Ever see someone shoot 5 times at a deer, hows about 10 times.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I have.
I have too, but that wasn't the point AJ's making tho.
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: Brent ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boyd,
Now, what are "your" guidlines exactly, and why? I think that's what this thread is really all about???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't quite follow you?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ric outlined it in his first post.
I understand where you're coming from on 1 770 yard group, but in all fairness, he has posted a multitude of other groups in previous threads here recently.
$2k "plus", for a rifle like Ric's is nothing new BTW, find one built cheaper then let me know.
What I am saying is,all three guns listed above will on average at any distance shoot with Ric's gun.
On average then. I have not seen how the others shoot, but from my experience with factory sticks, I could say honestly that I have had maybe one rifle that would make Ric pay close attention to how he was shooting, but still not quite meet what he's been getting. Oh, and that was off a bench too.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets see, this is called "Long Range Hunting" Ever see someone shoot 5 times at a deer, hows about 10 times.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I have.
I have too, but that wasn't the point AJ's making tho.
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: Brent ]
baldeagle713
Well-Known Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Try controling your heart rate and breathing to time the trigger squeeze with reading the conditons and wind.. With your 16 lb+ free recoil rifles that isn't real necessary...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*WyoWhisper*
My Coyote only weighs 10+ LBS. I also shoot off a Bipod with it.
As for shooting more than one shot at a deer
LR. YES I have seen it. Matter of fact MY first LR Deer I do believe it took 6 Shots before I hit it. (I wasn't staying in the gun)
*WyoWhisper*
Try a Mulie Pod on that rifle of yours and see what happens. I tryed one on the coyote and whooooooo weeeeee just like shootin off a bench rest. Yeeeee Haaaaaa!
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: baldeagle713 ]
*WyoWhisper*
My Coyote only weighs 10+ LBS. I also shoot off a Bipod with it.
As for shooting more than one shot at a deer
LR. YES I have seen it. Matter of fact MY first LR Deer I do believe it took 6 Shots before I hit it. (I wasn't staying in the gun)
*WyoWhisper*
Try a Mulie Pod on that rifle of yours and see what happens. I tryed one on the coyote and whooooooo weeeeee just like shootin off a bench rest. Yeeeee Haaaaaa!
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: baldeagle713 ]
W
*WyoWhisper*
Guest
Well, I'll be dipped in ****...
Boyd, you bring your boys factory sticks and their bi-pods and we'll shoot at 750 yards 10 times a piece, 3 rounds a piece... and if I don't win the average I'll buy their rifles from them on the spot! Believe me.. I ain't gonna happen...
Now just so we understand this..
it is prone position ( lying on the ground ) with a bi-pod, NO rests!
I guess for me to validate ANYTHING I do group wise I need to post a pic of every group I shoot just so I prove consitiency! I thought that after I posted all the groups I have over the past few months I would got some respect that the groups I posted arn't just "one timers"
What I don't get is that all of a sudden the guidlines and standards seem to be Williamsport 10 shot strings and guys who build guns for the guys who shoot there, anything else just doesn't cut it...
In reference to my opening sentence and Chris M. I'm just giving "props" where "props" are due... If you don't like it, suck it up... last time I checked you're allowed to speak about the gunsmith who built your rifles even if he isn't from the Williamsport "click". I have had the priviledge and been fortunate enough to be able to afford numerous custom rigs from numerous smiths. My confidence and trust are with him.. enough said...
Brent hit the nail on the head..
what are your guidelines for good groups... it seems that no matter what group gets posted.. one of the 1K br guys will say .. that's nice but now shoot 10 and see what it does.. or somthing of the sort...
Is that the standard, the guideline? That is what I am after...
Does every group have to be shot from a concrete bench at 1022 yards in Williamsport conditions? And to be honest those conditons arn't anything new to me since I've moved here...( if ya don't belive me ask Butch about the wind conditons)
would my group be more valid and open to criticism if I said I was on a concrete bench with rests? Hell, even I would expect it to be tighter and smaller then!
OR can a guy shot a group in conditons relative to where he is and how he hunts?
Jody you're on here can you shoot a 4" group from a bi pod at 770 yards with your factgory gun in a 10 mph wind?
To be fair...NOW THIS IS BY YOUR STANDARDS that you have basically imposed over the last few years... unless you 1K guys shoot groups off a bi-pod and post them on here for validity, maybe you shouldn't coment on groups that are shot like that.. after all you havn't done it. see my point?
Now answer my F'ing original questions...
and for the record.. it isn't just my groups that got slighted.. it has been any/many others that have been posted as well... I just had enough balls to say somthing about it..
I was simply wondering what it takes for you guys to accept the groups as good or "worthy"
I mean common already, everyone here knows what I'm asking and saying...
** Jody you posted when I did... nothing here is directed at you, you were used as reference. Do you have a pic of your groups from a bi-pod? Just curious to see what it does from a bi-pod.. I f I am wronb I'll be the first to admit it!
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: *WyoWhisper* ]
Boyd, you bring your boys factory sticks and their bi-pods and we'll shoot at 750 yards 10 times a piece, 3 rounds a piece... and if I don't win the average I'll buy their rifles from them on the spot! Believe me.. I ain't gonna happen...
Now just so we understand this..
it is prone position ( lying on the ground ) with a bi-pod, NO rests!
I guess for me to validate ANYTHING I do group wise I need to post a pic of every group I shoot just so I prove consitiency! I thought that after I posted all the groups I have over the past few months I would got some respect that the groups I posted arn't just "one timers"
What I don't get is that all of a sudden the guidlines and standards seem to be Williamsport 10 shot strings and guys who build guns for the guys who shoot there, anything else just doesn't cut it...
In reference to my opening sentence and Chris M. I'm just giving "props" where "props" are due... If you don't like it, suck it up... last time I checked you're allowed to speak about the gunsmith who built your rifles even if he isn't from the Williamsport "click". I have had the priviledge and been fortunate enough to be able to afford numerous custom rigs from numerous smiths. My confidence and trust are with him.. enough said...
Brent hit the nail on the head..
what are your guidelines for good groups... it seems that no matter what group gets posted.. one of the 1K br guys will say .. that's nice but now shoot 10 and see what it does.. or somthing of the sort...
Is that the standard, the guideline? That is what I am after...
Does every group have to be shot from a concrete bench at 1022 yards in Williamsport conditions? And to be honest those conditons arn't anything new to me since I've moved here...( if ya don't belive me ask Butch about the wind conditons)
would my group be more valid and open to criticism if I said I was on a concrete bench with rests? Hell, even I would expect it to be tighter and smaller then!
OR can a guy shot a group in conditons relative to where he is and how he hunts?
Jody you're on here can you shoot a 4" group from a bi pod at 770 yards with your factgory gun in a 10 mph wind?
To be fair...NOW THIS IS BY YOUR STANDARDS that you have basically imposed over the last few years... unless you 1K guys shoot groups off a bi-pod and post them on here for validity, maybe you shouldn't coment on groups that are shot like that.. after all you havn't done it. see my point?
Now answer my F'ing original questions...
and for the record.. it isn't just my groups that got slighted.. it has been any/many others that have been posted as well... I just had enough balls to say somthing about it..
I was simply wondering what it takes for you guys to accept the groups as good or "worthy"
I mean common already, everyone here knows what I'm asking and saying...
** Jody you posted when I did... nothing here is directed at you, you were used as reference. Do you have a pic of your groups from a bi-pod? Just curious to see what it does from a bi-pod.. I f I am wronb I'll be the first to admit it!
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: *WyoWhisper* ]
Ric old boy, ya gotta calm down a little bit. It's not a big deal, their compairing apples to oranges. Your shooting a custom hunting rifle, their trying to compare it to a rifle which is built for the sole purpose of shooting tiny groups at 1000 yards. Sure hope that .187 group is at 200 yards, cause the boys around here rebarrel when their group reaches .100" Good friend of mine owns the record at 100 yards for the Harrison Rifle Range, .047" 5 shot. Now thats a group
jb1000br
Official LRH Sponsor
Well i might as well be asked for 5 more too:
This was my first attempt at shooting paper at 300yds. 308, 168SMK, 48.5 N550 210M, FGM brass
answer break, off bipod with my beany sock in rear, MAGAZINE FED - all 5
Shot it with this (though it was wearing an A1 at the time of the group)
Ric--just curious were your mag fed or single shot fed. If SS, try mag feeding, trust me it opens your eyes a bit
BTW the three in the heart wer actually the first three--I was worried lookin thru the scope then i saw shots 4 and 5 outside the heart and hoped the first three were in the middle.
Group measure just over 2"
The first three are about .75"
Ric--I shoot at williamsport too, be nice please.
JB
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: jb1000br ]
This was my first attempt at shooting paper at 300yds. 308, 168SMK, 48.5 N550 210M, FGM brass
answer break, off bipod with my beany sock in rear, MAGAZINE FED - all 5
Shot it with this (though it was wearing an A1 at the time of the group)
Ric--just curious were your mag fed or single shot fed. If SS, try mag feeding, trust me it opens your eyes a bit
BTW the three in the heart wer actually the first three--I was worried lookin thru the scope then i saw shots 4 and 5 outside the heart and hoped the first three were in the middle.
Group measure just over 2"
The first three are about .75"
Ric--I shoot at williamsport too, be nice please.
JB
[ 02-26-2004: Message edited by: jb1000br ]
