I seriously doubt this is case head separation but what do you guys think?

[timberelk]

This is a red flag for me maybe the die is a mismatch to the chamber

I'm very new to reloading so bear with me... how far does you die typically **** off of the shell holder when you are only bumping the shoulder back .002? Touch shell plate and then minus 1/4 turn? Minus 1/2 turn?

 

[bigedp51]

I don't understand this part. How can you adjust your die shorter than touching the shell holder?

There is slop in the press and linkage, and if you just bring the die down to touch the die you will see daylight between the die and shell holder with the ram fully extended. The extra 1/8 to 1/4 turn makes the press cam over and keeps the die tight against the shell holder.

This helps keep the case shoulder location more uniform after sizing.

The problem with this method and the die making hard contact with the shell holder is you can push the case shoulder back too far. And this can cause the case to stretch and thin and causing a case head separation.

I use Redding competition shell holders that allows you to adjust shoulder bump and still have the press cam over. These shell holders are .002 to .010 "lower" in deck hight than a standard shell holder. Meaning they do not push the case as far into the die and let you control the shoulder bump in .002 increments.

This lets you adjust the shoulder bump without touching the resizing die.

Below on the right the +.010 competition shell holder will push the case .010 less into the die. And still allow the press to cam over and remove any slop from the press.

Dies and chambers vary in size and the dies instructions are to make sure the resized case will fit in the shortest chamber. And if you have a longer chamber and follow the instructions you can push the case shoulder back too far and cause a case head seperation. This is why on a bolt action your are told to only bump the case shoulder back .001 or .002.

 

[TwoMore]

Most of my dies dont make contact with the holder or just hit it, but i have had dies where I have had to turn some off of the base to get the correct bump, those are factory chambers,but all of my rifles I reload for I seldom have to trim necks , after forming . yours is baffling me to the amount of growth. Its hard not having it in my hands . I personally want to think you are good go and the growing will tail off but would rather narrow down the discrepancy

 

[timberelk]

There is slop in the press and linkage, and if you just bring the die down to touch the die you will see daylight between the die and shell holder with the ram fully extended. The extra 1/8 to 1/4 turn makes the press cam over and keeps the die tight against the shell holder.

This helps keep the case shoulder location more uniform after sizing.

The problem with this method and the die making hard contact with the shell holder is you can push the case shoulder back too far. And this can cause the case to stretch and thin and causing a case head separation.

I use Redding competition shell holders that allows you to adjust shoulder bump and still have the press cam over. These shell holders are .002 to .010 "lower" in deck hight than a standard shell holder. Meaning they do not push the case as far into the die and let you control the shoulder bump in .002 increments.

This lets you adjust the shoulder bump without touching the resizing die.

Below on the right the +.010 competition shell holder will push the case .010 less into the die. And still allow the press to cam over and remove any slop from the press.

Dies and chambers vary in size and the dies instructions are to make sure the resized case will fit in the shortest chamber. And if you have a longer chamber and follow the instructions you can push the case shoulder back too far and cause a case head seperation. This is why on a bolt action your are told to only bump the case shoulder back .001 or .002.

But if I'm able to bump my should back by about .002" with doing the touch plus 1/4 turn method wouldn't that mean I wouldn't benefit from buy these different size shell holders?

 

[timberelk]

Most of my dies dont make contact with the holder or just hit it, but i have had dies where I have had to turn some off of the base to get the correct bump, those are factory chambers,but all of my rifles I reload for I seldom have to trim necks , after forming . yours is baffling me to the amount of growth. Its hard not having it in my hands . I personally want to think you are good go and the growing will tail off but would rather narrow down the discrepancy

My gun(howa 1500) is a factory (bargain) rifle/chamber. Maybe that's why..?

 

[TwoMore]

I agree ,if the holder touches with no resistance it will not touch with resistance

 

[TwoMore]

My gun(howa 1500) is a factory (bargain) rifle/chamber. Maybe that's why..?

I think that is the whole key is the physical dimensions of the chamber and die but just speculatuon

 

[Tidus56]

@bigedp51
"The problem with this method and the die making hard contact with the shell holder is you can push the case shoulder back too far. And this can cause the case to stretch and thin and causing a case head separation."


I have 10-15 firings with the shell holder touching the die. No case head separations yet. I have lost all my brass from the necks splitting around 15 or so firings. I bought an anneal-eez annealer and hope to fix the split neck issue. I am at 7 firings on a my 243 AI with annealing and its looking good so far. It will be interesting to see how many firings I will get on a piece of brass before I encounter case head separation. Any idea on when I will start seeing this issue, how many firings? I use Lapua brass on my 243 AI

 

[bigedp51]

But if I'm able to bump my should back by about .002" with doing the touch plus 1/4 turn method wouldn't that mean I wouldn't benefit from buy these different size shell holders?

Correct, your dies shoulder location matches your rifle chamber shoulder location and you do not need the competition shell holders.

But your dies inside diameter is smaller than your chamber diameter, so you are squeezing the case during sizing and making the case grow in length.

 

[bigedp51]

@bigedp51
"The problem with this method and the die making hard contact with the shell holder is you can push the case shoulder back too far. And this can cause the case to stretch and thin and causing a case head separation."

Its not a problem if you measure a fired case and only bump the case shoulder back .001 to .002.
And the Redding competition shell holders allow you to control the amount of shoulder bump and still have the press cam over. (see my post #114)

 

[TwoMore]

I think that is the whole key is the physical dimensions of the chamber and die but just speculatuon

The case growing makes me think the head clearance after sizing is excessive but still speculative on my part

 

[L.Sherm]

Here's my last suggestion, get rid of the hornady die and find an experienced reloader to help you even if you have to pay one.

 

[bigedp51]

If you use a small base die the case will grow more in length than if a standard die was used.

If you have a rifle with a larger diameter chamber the case will grow more when resized.

The case (brass) in the die can only move in one direction in the die when resized. And that is upward into the neck of the die.

 

[bigedp51]

Here's my last suggestion, get rid of the hornady die and find an experienced reloader to help you even if you have to pay one.

"WHY" his shoulder bump is OK and he is not the only reloader that has to trim his cases after firing.
If he sent three cases to a custom die maker he would have a die that didn't cause the cases to grow as much. "BUT" its cheaper to trim the case than spend all that money on a custom die.

On my milsurp rifles with fat military chambers you always have to trim the cases.

If the OP had a tight custom chamber he would have to trim his cases far less

Bottom line a fat chamber and a skinny die means more case growth during sizing.
And a skinny chamber and a fat die means very little case growth when sized.