How Many Shots? Your Advice Needed.

[Roadrunner2]

While recently hunting the grasslands of Montana, I took a large bull at 700 yrds (no apparent wind, 308 180gr). Now I have been reading here for years how animals properly shot at long ranges just don't react because the gunshot noise is so far away. I was on top of a very pointy grassy hill and the bull was on a ridgeline standing broadside with his head to the right and his right front leg forward as if about to take a step. When I fired all he did was lift up his right front leg and hold it up, so I know that I had made contact. Remembering what I had read here about animals not reacting, I waited for what was probably about 15-20 seconds (maybe more or maybe less-hard to tell in the excitement of the moment). The bull was with about 8-10 other bulls, and they slowly began to spook, so fearing that I might lose the animal I (mistakenly) took a second shot.

I found the bull about 100 yards away, and upon quartering it I discovered that both shots had entered the chest about 4-5 inches apart and lodged on the inside of the left shoulder (no exit wound) and caused massive damage to the muscle there.

The second shot was totally not needed and just added so much damage to the left shoulder meat that most of the meat there was ruined. Had I not fired the second shot I would have preserved a lot more meat.

My question to y'all is what do you do when you've just shot an animal at range, you know that you've hit it, and it's just standing there about to run off. Not wanting to wound an animal and cause needless suffering and have to track it for miles, do you take another shot and ensure a quick kill and possibly ruin a lot more meat, or do you just need to be patient? Your suggestions please...

 

[Rick Richard]

Keep shooting as long as he standing. Loos a small amount of meat or loose ALL of it if he runs off and unable to recover.

 

[waspocrew]

I shot my bull this fall at 415 yards. I knew the first shot was good, he just stood there, obviously sick. He wasn't going anywhere, but I put one more into him and he went down for good. I'd rather have a quick kill and ensure recovery.

 

[Coldfinger]

Well I haven't killed a ton of elk like most western folks here, but sadly lost a cow. The shot was broadside at 300 yards with a 185 Berger out of my trusty 300 wsm. I assumed she was dead on her feet and just standing there bleeding out. I could see her bleeding in the scope but as I approached she notice me and bounded 40 yards to a fence line separating properties. I heeded the rancher's warning not to cross any fences. He refused to contact the neighboring landowner, as disputes have happened with hunters not respecting the property lines. I sadly forfeited that elk to the critters and chewed my tag sandwich 27 hours home! Next time I'll pump one in the ceranium to anchor an elk on the spot. A lot different landowner relationships out there in them mountains than here but still deserving their due respect!

 

[dmj]

My Dad always said on elk, if they are still standing keep shooting until they are on the ground and even then watch them. They are tough. I have found that to be good advice. Congratulations on the bull, thank you for sharing. Have a great day.

 

[Rotten]

I'm not trying to judge anyone for how they hunt. This is just my preference is to not shoot game like elk pass 400 yards it's to hard to tell if you hit a elk because of the way they act especially if they are in a group. To many things can go wrong I've found to many dead elk that have been shot and never found that I can only guess is that the hunter shot from to far away to put a second round into them or could just not locate where they went.
The woods look a whole lot different on the other side of a canyon looking back to where you think you shot .
Everything is much easier if you have a spotter to help you out. Most of the time I prefer to hunt by my self so this puts restrictions on myself.
One having a caliber with light enough recoil that I can spot my own hits but still enough poop to kill past 400 yards.
Second a scope with enough sight picture that I can follow a single elk in a groups and not lose sight of the animal after the 1st shot.
And third to shoot in a situation that I can get the animal taken care of and back without killing myself in the process.
I will always try to shoot until the animal is on the ground and even if they go down and are still kicking I will put another one in just in case.
Your experience may be different.

 

[Roadrunner2]

Thank you all for your advice. Rotten: I would suggest that rather than going with a lighter caliber to spot recoil that you go with a heavier caliber in a heavier gun. My 308 weighs 16# without optics and is a 0.25 moa rifle. I have Nightforce optics that go to 35x (if I recall) and this plus the weight allows me to observe all impacts. Elk are incredibly strong, tough animals and I wouldn't recommend going less then something in the 308-ish range.

Well I guess that the concenus is to keep shooting, because as Mr. Richard said, lose a little or lose it all. Thank you for all the input, I guess I don't feel so bad about the second shot now.

 

[David_h]

Based on my recent experience, what I plan on doing next time is to keep hitting them until their head is down. For me it is not enough that they are off their feet, if the head is up I sending more copper (used to be lead).

 

[Rotten]

Thank you all for your advice. Rotten: I would suggest that rather than going with a lighter caliber to spot recoil that you go with a heavier caliber in a heavier gun. My 308 weighs 16# without optics and is a 0.25 moa rifle. I have Nightforce optics that go to 35x (if I recall) and this plus the weight allows me to observe all impacts. Elk are incredibly strong, tough animals and I wouldn't recommend going less then something in the 308-ish range.

Well I guess that the concenus is to keep shooting, because as Mr. Richard said, lose a little or lose it all. Thank you for all the input, I guess I don't feel so bad about the second shot now.ev

Thank you all for your advice. Rotten: I would suggest that rather than going with a lighter caliber to spot recoil that you go with a heavier caliber in a heavier gun. My 308 weighs 16# without optics and is a 0.25 moa rifle. I have Nightforce optics that go to 35x (if I recall) and this plus the weight allows me to observe all impacts. Elk are incredibly strong, tough animals and I wouldn't recommend going less then something in the 308-ish range.

Well I guess that the concenus is to keep shooting, because as Mr. Richard said, lose a little or lose it all. Thank you for all the input, I guess I don't feel so bad about the second shot now.

Well everyone has their options. Me personally I hate heavy guns. I've posted my preference on other threads. I think the .308 is a great cartridge for all around hunting. Me personally I would want it in a 7lb rifle with scope since I already have a 270 win and 30-06 in that weight class I don't really need a 308 but have one in a m1a but I'm never going to carry that in the mountains chasing elk or deer.
Way to heavyweight for me.

 

[HARPERC]

Shooting is the fun part, more fun than losing a whole animal, or digging it out of worse location. Never seen one move to a better location. Which maybe a second shot saved.

 

[Rotten]

Well I haven't killed a ton of elk like most western folks here, but sadly lost a cow. The shot was broadside at 300 yards with a 185 Berger out of my trusty 300 wsm. I assumed she was dead on her feet and just standing there bleeding out. I could see her bleeding in the scope but as I approached she notice me and bounded 40 yards to a fence line separating properties. I heeded the rancher's warning not to cross any fences. He refused to contact the neighboring landowner, as disputes have happened with hunters not respecting the property lines. I sadly forfeited that elk to the critters and chewed my tag sandwich 27 hours home! Next time I'll pump one in the ceranium to anchor an elk on the spot. A lot different landowner relationships out there in them mountains than here but still deserving their due respect!

Most of the time this comes down to money. And the next land owner getting upset that the next guy is killing to many animals on his property.
Sadly hunting in the west is becoming who owns the most land and who can afford to hunt that land.

 

[memtb]

Roadrunner2, Animals respond differently to bullet impact…..whether the shot is heard or not!

About 15 years ago, I shot a walking elk on the edge of timber, nearing dark, broadside, behind the shoulder, at about 30 yards.

At that range, he absorbed about 5100 ft/lbs energy, never flinched (that I could determine) only picked up his walking speed…..one of the reasons I don't buy into the energy fallacy!

As I was about to touch-off another shot, he collapsed!

I concur with the others….continue shooting until they ain't moving! You just don't know if that one shot was a clean miss, or a shot that will soon take him down, or a hit at which he may decide to rapidly leave the country! memtb

 

[Rotten]

Memtb I know you love your big bore from the short time I've been posting. Easy big boy
They die almost as quick. I guess I'm just smartest? Is that a word? Anywho you don't need that much horsepower to kill elk.

 

[Roadrunner2]

This whole gun size/weight versus range is something that I've been struggling with all season. I have to carry my 16# plus gun in a back scabbard while carrying the ammo in a pouch inside my coat to maintain constant temp and make sure I get 2600 fps exactly from my temp-sensitive ammo. It takes me about 3-5 minutes to load and fire: 1) remove gun from scabbard and deploy bipod 2) remove ammo from inside my coat and load 3) crawl to firing position 4) range animal 5) check ballistics table and wind and dial in come-ups 6) secure comfortable firing position and fire. Needless to say this is not a hunting technique for short range shots when you flush an elk from cover. I can't carry a 16# gun in my hands for long so in 5 years I have missed one elk that I flushed in open grasslands at close range because of this technique. But it is a fabulous way to precisely place exact shots on target at 700 yrds.

However a light gun is much easier to carry than a 16# one. A light gun in your hands is just the thing for close shots on elk. However I can't shoot 700 yrd shots as precisely with a light gun as I can with a heavy gun. In the open grasslands where I hunt I am much more likely to get a long shot versus a close one. Sneaking up to say 200-300 yrds on a group of elk in open grasslands is next to impossible. There are just to many eyes looking at you and unless the wind is blowing, the elk can hear you walking on crunchy grass a couple hundred yards away.

I have therefore taken to sometimes carrying two guns. My heavy one in a back scabbard for long shots, and a 45-70 in my hands for close-in shots. I guess that it all boils down to the type of terrain that you're hunting in and what kind of hunting situations you'll be presented with.