Why so many shots?

[hawk4974]

First, those that are criticizing the shot, shot placement, bullet choice or anything else are opening the hunting community to more posturing by the anti's. Stop feeding them tools for propaganda.

Second, you have no right to criticize until you walk a mile in that mans shoes.

Third, we can not tell what the first shot did. The bull arched his back and clearly stood still not knowing what happened. One shot, one kill clearly does not happen every time. Perhaps it was a heart lung shot and the bull would have gone down anyway. It's non of your GD business.

Having only watched on video, I can not say one way or another how good the shot was but recent videos I have seen with really big guns and bullets still do not drop the animal first shot, even when it is clearly a heart+lung hit.

IMHO only those who feel they have flubbed a first shot get to criticize. Everyone else is a DH.

I have flubbed PLENTY of shots starting with my first deer at 14 when I gut shot it and it hunched it's back just like this elk. So I must not be a DH (whatever that stands for) and have the right to criticize. Sure, we'd all love to pull the trigger once and the animal drop like a rock but as you said, they don't always drop right away.

My main complaint with this particular video is that A) The decision was made to stall putting more rounds in the animal which to me, is inhumane. and B) They decided to post the video which is a HUGE tool for the anti's.

I think the simple fact that we are discussing what could have been done differently, offering each other our experiences, and sharing our knowledge to prevent inhumane kills is a bigger defense than saying it's none of your GD business! By publicly posting this video it makes it our business.

 

[rick523]

By posting the video I guess that does make it our business, and gives us the right to make comments, and or pass judgement on the shoots. If you don't want criticism don't post on a public forum. I think he was wanting accolades for the bull. It is a great bull, but I stand by my first post he should of continued to shoot until the bull was down for the count. It is quit clear in the video the bull was in some discomfort. That in my opinion does more to fuel the anti's than anything we might post. (Hawk I think DH stands for dick head, since were not playing baseball)

 

[hawk4974]

The wsm was his rifle and he felt more comfortable with it than the Win but the biggest reason was I was seriously questioning the 230 hybrid and what happened. The shot was high but we had killed dozens of bulls with the 210 HVLD with similar shot placements. The wsm did a fine job and the second two rounds were not required just insurance. An autopsy revealed some damage. And I took no offence to the question. I am totally with you on big bullets for bulls i was just giving a couple different scenarios was all. As a side note we have killed a number of bulls with the 270cal 150gr HVLD also the the location of the second bull did not permit packing a 15lb rifle. We were 7 miles from the truck when he killed the bull. The thicker pj country allowed us to close in a bit and I wouldnt of let him stretch it out much father then he did with the lighter rifle.

It is odd that the 230 didn't break a bone and slow him down more. I started another thread a couple of days ago about using match or those hybrid bullets for hunting. It obviously missed the shoulder blade or you'd have pics of it. It still comes down to placement but there's a reason for the expansion of the others. The energy transfer and kinetic shock seems to be higher with something other than a match bullet.

I really want to try Bergers but I will stick to the Hunting VLD's assuming the load is accurate enough. I really like Barnes bullets but they don't make a TTSX over 225gr. in .338. I have a 300 WSM loaded with 168 TTSX, 180 TTSX, and 200 Accubonds that all shoot under 3/4 of an inch and that's why I want my .338 with 250's or higher. I'm trying to get my hands on the 300 Berger but I can't find them and don't want to look every day for them.

Thanks for sharing BCG!!

 

[bigngreen]

It is odd that the 230 didn't break a bone and slow him down more. I started another thread a couple of days ago about using match or those hybrid bullets for hunting. It obviously missed the shoulder blade or you'd have pics of it. It still comes down to placement but there's a reason for the expansion of the others. The energy transfer and kinetic shock seems to be higher with something other than a match bullet.

I really want to try Bergers but I will stick to the Hunting VLD's assuming the load is accurate enough. I really like Barnes bullets but they don't make a TTSX over 225gr. in .338. I have a 300 WSM loaded with 168 TTSX, 180 TTSX, and 200 Accubonds that all shoot under 3/4 of an inch and that's why I want my .338 with 250's or higher. I'm trying to get my hands on the 300 Berger but I can't find them and don't want to look every day for them.

Thanks for sharing BCG!!

You can shoot a bull through the upper shoulder blades and not impact the spine but only blow the top of the vertebra of, this will sometimes drop the animal and then you think your GTG only to have them get up and truck. I've cut thousands of elk and you'll see it often!!

 

[backcountryguide]

That's no mans land spot on a bull a lot of them wont even fall when hit there. Some do giving you time to send another. This bull shrugged it off and went strait up the mountain. When I replayed the video I new he was fine but we spent the next two days trying to kill him before we moved on. If he would have been hit any other place we would have stuck with him through the hunt. I found and videoed him again in Jan and he looked fine. He just has a reference mark on him now so he better be more careful next year.

 

[hawk4974]

You can shoot a bull through the upper shoulder blades and not impact the spine but only blow the top of the vertebra of, this will sometimes drop the animal and then you think your GTG only to have them get up and truck. I've cut thousands of elk and you'll see it often!!

That's a fact. My uncle hit one in the head, dropped like a rock, turned around to get his pack on and when he turned back around, saw it run over the hill and chased it for miles until the blood trail ran out.

 

[bigngreen]

First, those that are criticizing the shot, shot placement, bullet choice or anything else are opening the hunting community to more posturing by the anti's. Stop feeding them tools for propaganda.

Second, you have no right to criticize until you walk a mile in that mans shoes.

Third, we can not tell what the first shot did. The bull arched his back and clearly stood still not knowing what happened. One shot, one kill clearly does not happen every time. Perhaps it was a heart lung shot and the bull would have gone down anyway. It's non of your GD business.

Having only watched on video, I can not say one way or another how good the shot was but recent videos I have seen with really big guns and bullets still do not drop the animal first shot, even when it is clearly a heart+lung hit.

IMHO only those who feel they have flubbed a first shot get to criticize. Everyone else is a DH.

Respectfully I disagree, if we as the hunting community don't stand up and help our own learn a better way of doing things then we will loose it, he screwed up and we all have but it's how you deal with the screw up that counts. Dang sure don't edit it into a slick little you tube video!!!!

We can absolutely tell the first shot was poo and NOT in the boiler room, first all bullets but one exited and it sounded like it was on the of side so had he hit him in the lungs or heart it would not have been over 4 hours waiting for him to come down and put the final shots on him.

I would have no problem with this video if they would not have rocked on it watching him bedded down for over 4 hours without going and killing him, it looks like he did a better job of video editing than he did hunting, if all we're out there for is video, leave the gun at home!!

 

[Barrelnut]

Not a display of marksmanship that I would want posted on Youtube...

The most disturbing thing to me is that Cody tells the guy to watch the elk, while he grabs his cell home to call daddy, and the animal is obviously not dispatched at that point!!!

You started it. Get the job done. THEN celebrate.