WildRose
Well-Known Member
There is no assumption, it's physics.
How do you practice
- Thread starter Alex Wheeler
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Check the explanation of the physics below. Especially the section on terrestrial refraction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction
Just the basics:
Atmospheric refraction is the deviation of light or other electromagnetic wave from a straight line as it passes through the atmosphere due to the variation in air density as a function of height.[1] This refraction is due to the velocity of light through air, decreasing (the refractive index increases) with increased density. Atmospheric refraction near the ground produces mirages. Such refraction can also raise or lower, or stretch or shorten, the images of distant objects without involving mirages. Turbulent air can make distant objects appear to twinkle or shimmer. The term also applies to the refraction of sound. Atmospheric refraction is considered in measuring the position of both celestial and terrestrial objects.
xsn10s
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My best practice is getting involved in off season competition. For me, it has been an excellent way to hone my long range hunting and shooting skiills. PRS(centerfire and rimfire), and 200/300 yard Egg Shoots are my two favorite competitive activities that use many of the same shooting skills, and equipment requirements necessary for successful long range hunting.
I will also simulate long range hunting conditions, shooting pests in the off season with a "long range" rimfire set-up using the same ranging, ballistic methods and scopes as is used with my centerfires but scaled to 200 yards at nearby locations.
I will also simulate long range hunting conditions, shooting pests in the off season with a "long range" rimfire set-up using the same ranging, ballistic methods and scopes as is used with my centerfires but scaled to 200 yards at nearby locations.
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
These days I'm all about frequency over volume.
A few years ago I found with 1-2minutes of dry fire every day, my groups improved, and trigger control became almost subconscious. I generally dry fire off hand - it's the most difficult position, and all inputs are magnified. Jerk the trigger AT ALL and the crosshairs will show you! Getting a shot to break EXACTLY when intended is not easy. Kind of like a baseball player who hits a fastball ball before they consciously see it leave the pitcher's hand. There's subconscious stuff going on here, might as well embrace it. No better way to get ones body 'in tune' with the rifle, imo.
I too like learning from every shot. For me, volume shooting can make that difficult.
I often set up a target on private land and plunk a couple into it on my way to work. I'll mark the target but leave it up. When I come back in the afternoon the conditions will have changed. I don't use wind flags or an anemometer. Without digressing too far, I've found myself becoming more and more in tune with the environment. Feel the wind. Be the bullet. Ommmm.... But by far the most valuable tool is mirage. It's almost a disease, I catch myself behind binoculars looking across valleys, over knolls, focusing on the fluid - even when I'm not shooting!
I'm pretty new to the long range concept, so generally I setup somewhere between 450-600yd. I've got a 3' long 1x2 steak that rides around with me, I pound it into the dirt with the side of my hammer-tacker, and then staple a piece of cardboard (my target) to the steak - basic and portable.
Occasionally, winds are prohibitive (30mph) and even 300yd seems like a long shot. I'll setup for offhand practice in a shooting lane. I like ~150yd.
Here's 4 shots offhand at 132yd with my .223
This could have been a really good group, but the second shot isn't even in the frame...
I try to balance maintaining a decent level of proficiency, and building new skills without investing huge quantities of time and components.
One fun drill I do in preparation for altitude hunting is a 'run down'. The competitive way to do it is with 4 targets abreast, 5 shots per target, timed. It's even more fun with an 8" gong though. I mark 4 firing lines in 100yd increments from the gong 100, 200, 300, 400. Start at 400 off my pack. Run to 300, shoot sitting. Run to 200, shoot kneeling. Run to 100, shoot standing. Great way to learn heart rate management. I like to reinforce first round hits, so I'll limit myself to 2 shots per position, and move on as soon as I connect.
I know it's not a long range drill, and perhaps a bit off topic, but to me a lot of 'hunting' has been following tracks. Often predator pressure is involved (wolves, cougars, other hunters). Game is on the move, and in an endeavour to catch up with the herd/individual often an animal presents itself much closer than expected. Having the ability to convert on fleeting opportunities under pressure makes me a better hunter. Being able to place my bullet precisely at long range makes me a better hunter. I'm not as experienced or proficient as many here, but I do take learning seriously. Like most, I've had surprises in the field. I've also lived in a city. It's hard to make 'range time', and when one does, it's a controlled range with massive berms everywhere. If you're still with me here
, my advice to the silent minority is; find a farmer, find some public and do it like you're gonna do it. It's the only way to do it.
A few years ago I found with 1-2minutes of dry fire every day, my groups improved, and trigger control became almost subconscious. I generally dry fire off hand - it's the most difficult position, and all inputs are magnified. Jerk the trigger AT ALL and the crosshairs will show you! Getting a shot to break EXACTLY when intended is not easy. Kind of like a baseball player who hits a fastball ball before they consciously see it leave the pitcher's hand. There's subconscious stuff going on here, might as well embrace it. No better way to get ones body 'in tune' with the rifle, imo.
I too like learning from every shot. For me, volume shooting can make that difficult.
I often set up a target on private land and plunk a couple into it on my way to work. I'll mark the target but leave it up. When I come back in the afternoon the conditions will have changed. I don't use wind flags or an anemometer. Without digressing too far, I've found myself becoming more and more in tune with the environment. Feel the wind. Be the bullet. Ommmm.... But by far the most valuable tool is mirage. It's almost a disease, I catch myself behind binoculars looking across valleys, over knolls, focusing on the fluid - even when I'm not shooting!
I'm pretty new to the long range concept, so generally I setup somewhere between 450-600yd. I've got a 3' long 1x2 steak that rides around with me, I pound it into the dirt with the side of my hammer-tacker, and then staple a piece of cardboard (my target) to the steak - basic and portable.
Occasionally, winds are prohibitive (30mph) and even 300yd seems like a long shot. I'll setup for offhand practice in a shooting lane. I like ~150yd.
Here's 4 shots offhand at 132yd with my .223
This could have been a really good group, but the second shot isn't even in the frame...
I try to balance maintaining a decent level of proficiency, and building new skills without investing huge quantities of time and components.
One fun drill I do in preparation for altitude hunting is a 'run down'. The competitive way to do it is with 4 targets abreast, 5 shots per target, timed. It's even more fun with an 8" gong though. I mark 4 firing lines in 100yd increments from the gong 100, 200, 300, 400. Start at 400 off my pack. Run to 300, shoot sitting. Run to 200, shoot kneeling. Run to 100, shoot standing. Great way to learn heart rate management. I like to reinforce first round hits, so I'll limit myself to 2 shots per position, and move on as soon as I connect.
I know it's not a long range drill, and perhaps a bit off topic, but to me a lot of 'hunting' has been following tracks. Often predator pressure is involved (wolves, cougars, other hunters). Game is on the move, and in an endeavour to catch up with the herd/individual often an animal presents itself much closer than expected. Having the ability to convert on fleeting opportunities under pressure makes me a better hunter. Being able to place my bullet precisely at long range makes me a better hunter. I'm not as experienced or proficient as many here, but I do take learning seriously. Like most, I've had surprises in the field. I've also lived in a city. It's hard to make 'range time', and when one does, it's a controlled range with massive berms everywhere. If you're still with me here
, my advice to the silent minority is; find a farmer, find some public and do it like you're gonna do it. It's the only way to do it.WiscGunner
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- Aug 2, 2016
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For those interested in POA changing throughout the day as the light changes, Scott Parks from Vortex did a nice video at Lodi which shows it in action quite clearly for those in doubt.
gjk5
Well-Known Member
Some great info in this thread. Based on some of these posts I have put together a group at work that will be doing some cold bore shots and friendly competition starting this week.
5 shooters, most have IDPA/IPSC experience, all are hunters, none have any PRS experience. We have tens of thousands of acres of BLM within about 5-10 min of the office, we will be mixing it up with random distances, elevations and conditions.
5 shooters, most have IDPA/IPSC experience, all are hunters, none have any PRS experience. We have tens of thousands of acres of BLM within about 5-10 min of the office, we will be mixing it up with random distances, elevations and conditions.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
I cant give you an exact number because it doesnt seem to work that way. But I have seen it move .75-1 moa pretty regular. Its amazing that we can place a bullet as precisely as we can with relatively little skill. Its those tricky days that separates the really good shooters. Every year I learn a little more, and every year my personal max hunting range gets shorter, I just can "see" all the variables at those really long distances. Hell its hard enough to do when theres a line of wind flags to the target. There is just so much involved in those really long shots.
xsn10s
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What sort of magic is this?
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
That is quite a bit. Another good reason for my decision to pull back my animal long range. Not saying that 1000y hunting is bad. We have our longest at 1280y and several in the 900's. Feel like I have gotten that done and can check it off. Seems like at 700-800y on the max end there is more control on my part and if weather is good I can make that shot all the time. I'll hunt rocks or varmints as far as I can get a range.
Steve
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Benchrest shooters have watched that for a long time. The rifles are set in bags on concrete benches. If you ever get the change to aim one at a target and just sit and watch what happens you'll see it too.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Thats where Im at. All the stuff I cant see wont hurt me enough to be off too bad at 7-800. Once you hit 1k and beyond a subtle change can move the bullet pretty far. But there are guys with the skills to go 1k and beyond no doubt. Some f-class and military wind coaches can flat read wind.
