How critical is scope level?

[WildRose]

I guess I'm slow. Are you saying a level is not necessary?

No, I had pointed out that Coriolis and Spin Drift are two different things, he already caught it.

Can't delete the post so I just edited and stated "not needed".

 

[RockyMtnMT]

No, I had pointed out that Coriolis and Spin Drift are two different things, he already caught it.

Can't delete the post so I just edited and stated "not needed".

Gotcha!

 

[Alibiiv]

Here's the formula
A(.0175)(x°)
Where A is the amount of drop at the range you're shooting at and X is the angle in degrees your scope is tilted.
So it would be
232(.0175)(1)
4.06"

205(.0175) (1)
3.58"

In the ballpark here with a question about levels. There may be other threads on the forum to explain this question, however the question popped into my head when reading the various responses about level scopes being an important variable for long range shooting. Presently I have a Wheeler scope mounting kit that includes a couple of levels within the kit. One of the levels rests inside of the action above the magazine box when the bolt is out, and another level that you can put across the top of the scope rings to make the action level. From what I can determine the level that can be used across the scope rings is also used on top of the scope cap, once the action is level, which is "supposed" to get the crosshairs level; I really do not think that this is a very accurate process. What I try to do is level the action from the bottom of the action with a good level, lock the action in a Tripton vise, and then level the crosshairs when they are in the rings with a level mark that I placed on the wall about 50 feet away and tighten the rings. I personally have had good results with this method. Are there better tools or is there a better way to level a scope? Or is this another question for another thread?

 

[dfanonymous]

In the ballpark here with a question about levels. There may be other threads on the forum to explain this question, however the question popped into my head when reading the various responses about level scopes being an important variable for long range shooting. Presently I have a Wheeler scope mounting kit that includes a couple of levels within the kit. One of the levels rests inside of the action above the magazine box when the bolt is out, and another level that you can put across the top of the scope rings to make the action level. From what I can determine the level that can be used across the scope rings is also used on top of the scope cap, once the action is level, which is "supposed" to get the crosshairs level; I really do not think that this is a very accurate process. What I try to do is level the action from the bottom of the action with a good level, lock the action in a Tripton vise, and then level the crosshairs when they are in the rings with a level mark that I placed on the wall about 50 feet away and tighten the rings. I personally have had good results with this method. Are there better tools or is there a better way to level a scope? Or is this another question for another thread?

They don't work. At least not as they are intended. Yes, there are multiple threads on the wheeler level kits. However the fact is, all scopes are manufactored differently with different tolerances, especially when they get the reticle installed in there. A level turret and a level reticle aren't usually synonymous. Use a plum line. Or get one of the sniperhide mildot targets for 100yards and use a carpenter level to square it before you staple it. That's the short answer

 

[WildRose]

They don't work. At least not as they are intended. Yes, there are multiple threads on the wheeler level kits. However the fact is, all scopes are manufactored differently with different tolerances, especially when they get the reticle installed in there. A level turret and a level reticle aren't usually synonymous. Use a plum line. Or get one of the sniperhide mildot targets for 100yards and use a carpenter level to square it before you staple it. That's the short answer

IF you level the scope body and the reticle is off your scope needs to be sent in for repair.

 

[WildRose]

This is the handiest, simplest scope leveling gadget I've seen to date.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...-reticle-leveler-with-picatinny-style-adapter

 

[CMRHG]

I have a custom tool that i built that does an absolute perfect job. It works off of the lug rails along with a super precise level. After lugs are perfectly level and I mean less than .0005" (1/2 thou.), I align vertical cross hair of scope with a plumb bob and string hanging from a tree at 100 yds and meticulously tighten the scope rings. Tool works for all Rems, Howa's, Stiller, any Rem clone. Building 20 of them right now. Exact reason for this post is that I have used the wheeler kit and with my tool, I've found scopes I've leveled with the wheeler kit to be out as much as 2 degrees. Just eliminates one more problem when trying to find accuracy.

 

[Satterlee Scott]

Scope levels are absolutely necessary. I teach a lot of folks to shoot every year and nobody has good enough ears to be able to control an external object to with in 3 degrees no matter how well set up thy think their rifle is. Especially when we get off our bellies and bench and get out into hunting conditions. The mountain is tilting one way you are tilting another. You can buy scope mounted ones and rail mounted ones for less than $15 on amazon. Bottom line is this I try to do everything I can to reduce my error and know that I have done everything I can to make a responsible shot. I have killed lots of stuff this year out to 800 ish I wouldn't think of taking a rifle to the field with out a bubble level. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=anti+cant+devices+

 

[CMRHG]

Scope levels are absolutely necessary. I teach a lot of folks to shoot every year and nobody has good enough ears to be able to control an external object to with in 3 degrees no matter how well set up thy think their rifle is. Especially when we get off our bellies and bench and get out into hunting conditions. The mountain is tilting one way you are tilting another. You can buy scope mounted ones and rail mounted ones for less than $15 on amazon. Bottom line is this I try to do everything I can to reduce my error and know that I have done everything I can to make a responsible shot. I have killed lots of stuff this year out to 800 ish I wouldn't think of taking a rifle to the field with out a bubble level. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=anti+cant+devices+

Totally agree, I install a level at the same time in dial in a scope with the above process. takes about 30 minutes to install the scope, well worth the time.

 

[Satterlee Scott]

Totally agree, I install a level at the same time in dial in a scope with the above process. takes about 30 minutes to install the scope, well worth the time.

I also do a tall target test to make sure the reticle tracks up and down the fall line and 1 click actually does what the scope cap says .250 MOA not .245 or .1 Mils and not .98 etc etc

 

[dfanonymous]

IF you level the scope body and the reticle is off your scope needs to be sent in for repair.

Not in my experience. However I have noticed some of the $2000 scope companies are less off from the scope body. So I'll admit cheaper scopes seem to be more off from scope turret. But there's a reason why hundreds of people who use the wheeler think that there scopes are not level after using it.

 

[Satterlee Scott]

Not in my experience. However I have noticed some of the $2000 scope companies are less off from the scope body. So I'll admit cheaper scopes seem to be more off from scope turret. But there's a reason why hundreds of people who use the wheeler think that there scopes are not level after using it.

As long at the reticle goes straight up and straight done to gravity it's not a huge deal if the reticle is canted a tiny bit.

 

[dfanonymous]

As long at the reticle goes straight up and straight done to gravity it's not a huge deal if the reticle is canted a tiny bit.

Don't be lazy.

Like my example from a previous post, 2 degrees off at 100 yards might not be the end of the world I said. But mathmatically two or three degrees may not sound like much–after all it is less than 1% of a 360-degree circle but three degrees of cant is VERY noticeable in a scope. In fact, most people will be bothered by a reticle that is just one degree off-axis. off-axis reticles cause a number of problems with sighting and accuracy. For example, if you set up your rifle so the vertical cross-hair is straight up and down, your turrets will be slightly tilted. This means that when you click elevation you will change windage slightly, and vice-versa. If, on the other hand, you cant the whole rifle to make the turrets square, this throws off the bullet trajectory–causing bullet impact that is low and displaced horizontally. So really wildrose is correct that it probably shouldn't be like that, but the reality is that a lot of scopes are. So either put more money towards a better more expensive scope or use a plumb line because if your turrets are sideways on a plumb line. That scope needs to go back.

 

[Alibiiv]

Scope levels are absolutely necessary. I teach a lot of folks to shoot every year and nobody has good enough ears to be able to control an external object to with in 3 degrees no matter how well set up thy think their rifle is. Especially when we get off our bellies and bench and get out into hunting conditions. The mountain is tilting one way you are tilting another. You can buy scope mounted ones and rail mounted ones for less than $15 on amazon. Bottom line is this I try to do everything I can to reduce my error and know that I have done everything I can to make a responsible shot. I have killed lots of stuff this year out to 800 ish I wouldn't think of taking a rifle to the field with out a bubble level. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=anti+cant+devices+

I understand principle of setting the cross hairs to a level line at 100 yards (increasing the distance for setting the crosshairs) instead of the 50 feet that I am presently using. I do not have a Picatinny rail, the rings (Talley) are attached to a round receiver; round top Ruger 77. Presently when the rings are installed onto the rifle, I take the top of the split rings off, I "then" place the level off of the rings to get the rifle level, and "then" clamp the rifle in a Tipton vise to keep the rings/rifle level. Once the rifle is level, I level the crosshairs to a level line that I placed on the wall 50 feet away. If I use this process, only setting the crosshairs level with a plumb line at 100 yards, the scope ought to be mounted properly? The scope is a Leupold and there isn't a whole lot of bearing surface on the top of the scope cap or the internal turret, that is why I have not been leveling the scope referencing from the scope cap itself. Once the crosshairs are leveled to the axis of the rifle out to 100 yards and still clamped in the Tipton vise, "then" the cant scope ring is attached to the scope tube, and then leveled. I get what you have written in your post about doing trying to do everything possible to reduce your error, that too is what I am trying to accomplish. I do not know if I'll ever be taking an 800 yards shot, however I would like to ensure that my rifle is capable of making the shot if it presents itself. With all else in place I now have to work on the nut behind the trigger! Thank you for everyone's responses.