Hammer Bullets and Hyper Velocity, The Misconception

[ButterBean]

id guess you dont wanna say actual lowest minimum expansion in public forum.. to keep people thinking thats the norm

but it would be interesting to hear the lowest expansion results with say a 199 hunter vs a 199 shock ( the hollow is larger on the shocks , correct ?? )
or any equal bullet weigh between the 2

1800 FPS across the board, its plain as day on the website

 

[HARPERC]

id guess you dont wanna say actual lowest minimum expansion in public forum.. to keep people thinking thats the norm

but it would be interesting to hear the lowest expansion results with say a 199 hunter vs a 199 shock ( the hollow is larger on the shocks , correct ?? )
or any equal bullet weigh between the 2

I think 1800 fps minimum has been stated often enough. Always information that's new to some but certainly not hidden.

HP's are an interesting subject, ask me a year ago and I may have answered differently.

In the 2 you mention I'm guessing, but my guess would be as follows:
1) Shock Hammers typically retain 80% of shank
2) Hammer Hunters retain 60-70%

The SH will probably serve best closer, thinner bodied, thinner skinned game. Also the "standard" .308 diameter barrel has a 10" twist, (minimum recommended 10.5") which will yield a little better stability factor. Meaning impact will likely be square to the HP, and maximum expansion observed.

The 199 HH requires a minimum twist of 9.25", and still in my mind lags at that behind the 196". I have 2 barrels in the pipeline both 1-8", 1-7" if available.

It really doesn't matter which brand you're speaking of HP performance will depend on its integrity on impact, and actually hitting point first. The bigger HP will be friendlier in this regard.

A 270 Lever Hammer was built for Asian Buffalo. It has a bigger HP, a meatier meplat, and larger petals. It blew test media apart impressively. Killed buffalo very well on broadside shots, but lacked penetration on tougher angles.

So far the 248 HH has proved a better killer on buffalo than those heavier in the line up. The thick hide of the buffalo opening those bullets a little slower, the petals coming off more timely, and a better stability factor providing a better wound track.

On other thinner animals the Lever Hammer proved a more sudden killer. One report has about 5' of penetration in a moose.

HP size across the line has increased since inception. Also not a secret, or nefarious, just new information to some.

 

[CMP70306]

id guess you dont wanna say actual lowest minimum expansion in public forum.. to keep people thinking thats the norm

but it would be interesting to hear the lowest expansion results with say a 199 hunter vs a 199 shock ( the hollow is larger on the shocks , correct ?? )
or any equal bullet weigh between the 2

You mean like the 1800 fps that they put right on their website?

The larger hollow points probably open at a lower velocity but they will definitely expand at 1800 fps so if you use that as a safety factor then you don't run into any issues.

 

[Stgraves260]

While I appreciate your answers as said above this is the thread title
Hammer Bullets and Hyper Velocity, The Misconception
I mean no offense but no one here is interested in Bergers .............................At All

Well I would never call you or anybody stupid if that's what your statement is referring to. I would say maybe misinformed, or do some more research, but never would I call you stupid.

 

[ButterBean]

Well I would never call you or anybody stupid if that's what your statement is referring to. I would say maybe informed, but never would I call you stupid.

You have totally misinterpreted what I said, I have never and will not imply that towards anyone yourself included so please don't assume just ask, but I will say again we are not interested in Berger Bullets .......................At All

 

[Stgraves260]

id guess you dont wanna say actual lowest minimum expansion in public forum.. to keep people thinking thats the norm

but it would be interesting to hear the lowest expansion results with say a 199 hunter vs a 199 shock ( the hollow is larger on the shocks , correct ?? )
or any equal bullet weigh between the 2

It's not that I don't want to say what the lowest velocity is. It's just not out their. That's why I said I will have to get the DVD from Berger that I think talks about it. I'm not sure yet because I don't have the DVD. When I started shooting the Berger VLD and reloading them I believe it was on their website minimum velocity was 1300 FPS For proper expansion. I shared some post because someone asked. Then there was people that just jumped on a band wagon in attack mode All because I answered someones question. I don't care what bullet anybody shoots. I just shared my experience. There are people on here that will say they drop everything in its tracks. If you are a real hunter and have hunted long enough you know thats not true. I had to track a deer down with no heart.

 

[Stgraves260]

I'm not trying to pick a fight but it appears that some of you are. I'm more than happy to let this go. For those of you who asked me questions just PM me and I'll try and help the best I can.

 

[snox801]

Play? Taking a life of anything is not a game. When you squeeze that trigger you can not hit reset. I have seen more injured animals shot with 300 Win Mags than any other rifle caliber. IMO I feel they are overconfident.They pick up that 300 WM and load a 180 grain solid bullet and get upset because they have to track that deer because the bullet did not expand. It just left a dime size hole. I have had many bullets fail. Noslers, Hornady, Seirra, Barnes, and yes Berger's. With my experience I have just had more success with Berger's. Some people like solid core bullets over bullets that fragment. I have shot wet newspaper from 50 yards out to 1500 ish yards and have found out that a 180 grain bullet from a 300 Win Mag does not penetrate and more than a 6.5 Cal 140 grain bullet from my 260 Remington. Other people may get different results than me but that's just what I have found in my own research. My research was comparing solid to sold bullets and bullets that fragment to others that fragment. I found that your bigger caliber rifles shooting heavier bullets need a higher velocity than a smaller caliber rifle shooting smaller bullets to get about the same penetration. IMO it's do to more SD in the larger diameter bullets. There is a way to figure this out as well, without even pulling a trigger. When I first got into this in the late 80s early 90s. I was sitting at a table with some play-do. I rolled it up into a ball and poked it with a small #2 pencil then tried it again with a large kindergarten like pencil. It was much more easy with the small pencil to poke threw than the large pencil. My dad said I was on to something. I was just playing with some kids. He was more into reloading shot guns at the time than rifles, however his good friend was into reloading rifles. That's where the fun started. My dad and his friend still talk about that with me today. It makes me wonder how all these longe range bullet development manufacturers started. What made them change designs in a bullet. Walt Berger's story along with Bryan Litz is pretty interesting.

Think you misunderstood I said I'd play because it's almost like your trolling.
Anyway you can thought Bryan all you want I know him as he lives by me. And applied is literally 20 min from my house.
He is great at his job but he has zero input on hunting bullets.
Second if you were to inform yourself a bit more you would know the team he shoots or shot with for the ko2 was not shooting Berger they shoot the cutting edge laser. In fact the winner a few years back mitch also lives by me.
I also shoot the 400gr laser in my long range .375.
But anyhow like bean said it's about hammers and high speed. So start a hammers vs Berger if you want and I'll tag along to that thread. It's been well debated and hashed out. They are two different bullets made to achieve two different things.
So take your moral superiority of how to take game to another thread and I'll tag along for a well thought out debate.

 

[Stgraves260]

Think you misunderstood I said I'd play because it's almost like your trolling.
Anyway you can thought Bryan all you want I know him as he lives by me. And applied is literally 20 min from my house.
He is great at his job but he has zero input on hunting bullets.
Second if you were to inform yourself a bit more you would know the team he shoots or shot with for the ko2 was not shooting Berger they shoot the cutting edge laser. In fact the winner a few years back mitch also lives by me.
I also shoot the 400gr laser in my long range .375.
But anyhow like bean said it's about hammers and high speed. So start a hammers vs Berger if you want and I'll tag along to that thread. It's been well debated and hashed out. They are two different bullets made to achieve two different things.
So take your moral superiority of how to take game to another thread and I'll tag along for a well thought out debate.

I never been called that before. First time for everything. Maybe I misread something. I like to try new things and do my own research and experience the outcome. Im pretty opened minded. I know two people can shoot the exact same gun, bullet, and animal and you would get 2 totally different outcomes. Don't deal in absolutes. Nothin is ever Guaranteed. I feel we just do the best we can and hope for a positive outcome.

 

[ButterBean]

It's not that I don't want to say what the lowest velocity is. It's just not out their. That's why I said I will have to get the DVD from Berger that I think talks about it. I'm not sure yet because I don't have the DVD. When I started shooting the Berger VLD and reloading them I believe it was on their website minimum velocity was 1300 FPS For proper expansion. I shared some post because someone asked. Then there was people that just jumped on a band wagon in attack mode All because I answered someones question. I don't care what bullet anybody shoots. I just shared my experience. There are people on here that will say they drop everything in its tracks. If you are a real hunter and have hunted long enough you know thats not true. I had to track a deer down with no heart.

Neighbor you don't get it do ya? Will you please leave it be

 

[Ivorygrip]

I read that entire post in Crocodile Dundee's voice.

I was doing the same. Couldn't help myself.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

@Stgraves260 -- i was talking with bean regarding the minimum expansion , that was not related your post .

You mean like the 1800 fps that they put right on their website?
View attachment 304869

The larger hollow points probably open at a lower velocity but they will definitely expand at 1800 fps so if you use that as a safety factor then you don't run into any issues.

id be surprised if the shocks didnt open up quite a bit sooner than the hammers , as a wild guess id wing it at least 100 lower , maybe 150-200 just based on hp opening diameter in the pictures .. just wondering what your lowest results were

do ya have a g1 for the hammer or a g7 for the shocks to compare

 

[Stgraves260]

@Stgraves260 -- i was talking with bean regarding the minimum expansion , that was not related your post .




id be surprised if the shocks didnt open up quite a bit sooner than the hammers , as a wild guess id wing it at least 100 lower , maybe 150-200 just based on hp opening diameter in the pictures .. just wondering what your lowest results were

do ya have a g1 for the hammer or a g7 for the shocks to compare

My apologies.

 

[Stgraves260]

Neighbor you don't get it do ya? Will you please leave it be

Then stop bringing it up and acting like your innocent when you Instigated it the hole time. So neighbor I said " I was willing to let it go and yet again you replied with a rudd comment. I will say it again. I'm willing to let it go.