Great Podcast on terminal performance.

[BlackTail30]

One of the biggest frustrations with the "hunting with match bullets" conversations is they are argued as one homogenous design.

They are not all the same, and they do not all perform the same in tissue. Eldms don't perform the same as scenars, berger hybrids don't perform the same as SMKs, TMKs don't perform the same as norma golden targets.

All are match bullets, all are designed differently, and none are able to be generalized as "match bullets do ____" and have any useful value in actual conversation.

The common concept of weak jackets with match bullets goes out the window the second you talk about Bergers, as it's quite literally the opposite. Same with scenars, both a hybrid and a scenar is a tougher thicker bullet than a vld hunting. All of this has to talked about on the ground level. What does each bullet do. Down to the caliber and weight. A 155 tmk is not a 77tmk is not a 195 tmk.

Amen!!

 

[asd9055]

Give it a listen if you have time. Tons of calibrated ballistic gel testing and field testing info.

View attachment 497316

I tried to watch this, but it is only audio. Oh well.....

 

[stazmania]

One of the biggest frustrations with the "hunting with match bullets" conversations is they are argued as one homogenous design.

They are not all the same, and they do not all perform the same in tissue. Eldms don't perform the same as scenars, berger hybrids don't perform the same as SMKs, TMKs don't perform the same as norma golden targets.

All are match bullets, all are designed differently, and none are able to be generalized as "match bullets do ____" and have any useful value in actual conversation.

The common concept of weak jackets with match bullets goes out the window the second you talk about Bergers, as it's quite literally the opposite. Same with scenars, both a hybrid and a scenar is a tougher thicker bullet than a vld hunting. All of this has to talked about on the ground level. What does each bullet do. Down to the caliber and weight. A 155 tmk is not a 77tmk is not a 195 tmk.

The same can be said about bullets labeled as hunting bullets. The labeling doesn't necessarily mean it will or won't work in every circumstance.

 

[bultinkle]

The same can be said about bullets labeled as hunting bullets. The labeling doesn't necessarily mean it will or won't work in every circumstance.

No argument there

 

[TBell]

Well in 6.5 cm ELD M 'white box' hornady and my near perfect duplication of accuracy of the Hornady, with my hand loads are under a dime at 100yards. So far nothing has walked away hunting White tail, in south and west Tx.

And my 300 WM, in 208 grain, A-max & ELD-M's have the same track record, holding the same accuracy in MOA out to 600. I hear the A-Max should faulted past 600, but personally have only shot the ELD-M past that out to 1100 on one occasion on steel. Was please with hits, but can not confirm or deny the actual MOA measurements on the steels from 700-1100.

Also have not had hunting experience past 600 but terminal performance on pigs and white tail was no more than 20-30 yard of running from point of impact. In other words one shot and in the freezer.

I think I'll stick with ELD-M's.

Could not find Pod cast Link in thread if someone could please repost, may just be an age related flaw on my part.

 

[TBell]

The same can be said about bullets labeled as hunting bullets. The labeling doesn't necessarily mean it will or won't work in every circumstance.

Always bothered me that the manufactures of hunting bullets did not replicate the grains and Bc in target rounds so scope calculations would be consistent from practice to hunt.

Oh well, in a perfect world.

 

[Hand Skills]

Could not find Pod cast Link in thread if someone could please repost, may just be an age related flaw on my part.

 

[TBell]

Thanks sir

 

[jedimonkey]

The word "immutable" is a perfect fit for this blog.

 

[bultinkle]

Always bothered me that the manufactures of hunting bullets did not replicate the grains and Bc in target rounds so scope calculations would be consistent from practice to hunt.

Oh well, in a perfect world.

Weight and bc doesn't mean it's going to have the same point of impact, but even if so considering that bc is a function of form factor how could they duplicate the shape and weight with different metal amounts? Usually hunting bullets have more copper in the base and a tapering profile, the copper is lighter than lead

It's a cool idea but I think it's more difficult than it feels.

 

[MEdude]

It's a cool idea but I think it's more difficult than it feels.

I completely agree with your full post, and then…..

Match & hunting bullets with same weight, & BC
Partial screenshot from Hornady's website. Not sure how they are doing this…..

I'm curious if they will extend this, "same / same" application to other calibers.

This is the caliber I currently hunt with. Looking forward to seeing if they really do shoot the same.
Has anyone worked with this pairing yet?

 

[bultinkle]

I completely agree with your full post, and then…..

View attachment 570607

Match & hunting bullets with same weight, & BC
Partial screenshot from Hornady's website. Not sure how they are doing this…..

I'm curious if they will extend this, "same / same" application to other calibers.

This is the caliber I currently hunt with. Looking forward to seeing if they really do shoot the same.
Has anyone worked with this pairing yet?

That's great! I didn't say it was impossible either, I said more difficult. I'd be interested to see what litz reads those for av and cut them and see how they managed to do it

Fwiw I've seen 7prc 180 eldm and 175 eldx match up within a few .1-.2 mrad out to 1k in a rifle another forum is evaluating due to the slight speed increase in the eldx

 

[MEdude]

I said more difficult.

We are on the same page, no disagreement at all from me.
I had concluded the same thing, change ratios to change performance characteristics and the size / shape / BC …. Something…… should no longer match up….. But looks like they do.

I'm eager to see how they perform with my gun. If acceptable, then how does the X flavor perform terminally in game.

 

[Elk868]

Hy all
I think there are lots good bullets out and understand how something works is good always . And that's why I did this. 6mm steel
3 shots Lapua scenar 250 grain and 3 shots Barnes tsx 250 grain with my 338 Lapua mag
At 763 meter (Barnes bullet made the holes )
And I shot a mule deer at 220-230 yards and have had a nice 2 inch exit wound with massiv blood trail . So I can say for me with my rifle this combo works fine . I think it's also different from rifle to rifle. But choose correct bullets is important