Great discussion.

[Darryle]

Regardless of diameter, the issue is the Indian.

A 223 is cheaper to shoot and easier/faster to get someone up and running, it doesn't mean they should run out and hunt with it.

Bullet for bullet, 224 vs 264 vs 284 vs 308, if you send the same number of rounds downrange between any 2 choices, you will more than likely be just as proficient with both.

The disconnect is, people don't shoot their cartridge of choice often enough to be proficient with it, the lower recoiling round closes that gap significantly.

I personally will never take a 223/6mm on a hunt of a lifetime, that is just me.

I am just as guilty as anyone of not shooting enough.

 

[Darryle]

But a bullet isn't smashing anything closed. It's grenading it open.

Exactly the same, your are tearing the tissue apart, hammer, railroad iron or bullet, torn tissue doesn't bleed as well as sliced tissue.

How many times have you heard a knife is more dangerous than a gun? There is a reason.

 

[Huntnful]

Are you talking bull elk with a 6mm or antelope?

I watched a bull moose take 3 slugs from a 338 lapua imp last season and still make it 60 yards. I'd sure hate to have substituted those .338s for 6mms. No pass through from any of the slugs. (270eldx) According to the podcast it should have blown limbs off! lol

Bulls and cows. The one dude just shot a 350" bull at 700 yards with a 6mm and 115 nose ring d tac. Dead before he could shoot it again.

Hahaha a bull moose is a little bigger than a whitetail doe. But I get what you're saying.

Exactly the same, your are tearing the tissue apart, hammer, railroad iron or bullet, torn tissue doesn't bleed as well as sliced tissue.

How many times have you heard a knife is more dangerous than a gun? There is a reason.

I have literally never heard that lol. I get the comparison though. Did you see the picture of that heart? Do you think it bled less than the one that the arrow went through?

 

[Darryle]

You are comparing a a clean slice to a bullet wound, repeatedly have been told they are not the same, yet you continue you down that path.

How often does the average hunter hit the heart? Most do good to hit the lungs at extended ranges, hell, some do good to hit the animal.

A broken pump(heart) doesn't work while the brain is still functioning and probably sending signals to the lungs to saturate the blood stream with oxygen, which will never happen. Asphyxiation killed that deer, the exploded heart was the catalyst.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

End of the day, run what ya brung...just don't suck

 

[Mark37082]

I found the podcast interesting. I have encountered so much info and opinions on bullets that it is overwhelming. Logic dictates that large wound channels are the priority when selecting a big game hunting bullet. CNS hits are wonderful at incapacitating an animal, but are risky when targeted IMO. Blood trails are helpful when hunting in thick stuff with less than perfect shot placement. However, I am now buying into the more explosive bullet traits versus the bullet weight retention I have followed for decades.

 

[jessej]

Energy transferred to the animal determines the amount of flight or fight response and adrenaline dump. That's why a broadhead kills so fast with an unspooked calm animal.
In the past, doing collections, we used a 208 amax at a mv of 1000 fps (mouse fart quiet), Truck loads of does were taken at 20-50 yards. A large portion of them acted just like double lung bow shot deer. Some would only jump, then look back at the light, and take 2-3 steps before expiring. These pills made 30 cal holes in and out with nothing but a pencil hole in the lungs.

 

[26Reload]

I worked as a paramedic for 20 years…I've seen fingers cut off with a miter saw that barely bled. Also seen a finger cut mostly off with a carpet knife that almost killed the guy from blood loss.

Wussies....I leave/have left dna on many job sites.....some scary bloody....
"SPIT ON IT...WRAP IT UP..GET BACK TO WORK"
If it's still there in the morning it wasn't so bad.....

 

[26Reload]

How many times have you heard a knife is more dangerous than a gun? There is a rereason.

In my hands..cutting myself....most every time.....

 

[Darryle]

I absolutely love this video, perfect example of someone knowing their equipment

Heart shot animal not going down immediately


Same can be said about this video



Taking out lungs or heart doesn't always end with immediate death, completely disrupting the central nervous system, turns it all off almost immediately.

I have shot enough deer to have made my fair share poor shots, luckily, I don't recall that I ever lost one, but I have had to do some serious searching to find some. I have completely whiffed, even on deer at less than 60yds.

 

[bdlesh]

I read an article sometime back that was talking about bullet penetration of large calibers, mostly 45/70 vs 458 mag.
They found that while shooting wet newspapers, bullets traveling 1500-1800 fps penetrated more than those traveling 2100+. If I remember correctly their theory was the faster bullets expanded more and that caused more resistance to stop the travel. They were talking about the 458 when pushed to the max wasn't as effective on large game as the lower speed. It does and doesn't make sense to me.....but that's not new either.
I would still like to have more than less...even if it is just a mental win for me.

 

[Huntnful]

You are comparing a a clean slice to a bullet wound, repeatedly have been told they are not the same, yet you continue you down that path.

How often does the average hunter hit the heart? Most do good to hit the lungs at extended ranges, hell, some do good to hit the animal.

A broken pump(heart) doesn't work while the brain is still functioning and probably sending signals to the lungs to saturate the blood stream with oxygen, which will never happen. Asphyxiation killed that deer, the exploded heart was the catalyst.

I know they are not the same. But you're acting like a bullet wound the size of baseball isn't going to bleed catastrophically because of how it was created. They bleed, and bleed a lot. Just like that dall sheep video you posted. Only that video had an exit large enough to show the blood loss. They bleed the same internally whether that exit hole is there to show it or not.

I would rather get stabbed with a 1" wide knife than shot with a 6mm ELDM at 3300 fps lol.

 

[26Reload]

Well...if prairie digs coukd tell us which hurt more...the lowly 22lr or the 22Nosler..

 

[E4aker]

I sent Huntnful a video of my daughter shooting an elk twice in the boiler room with a 7prc/190 Atip and that elk was on her feet a long time. You couldn't have shot the elk any better, and the bullet penetrated the shoulder and then grenaded like it should.

The deer shot with the 245eol and 300 nmi earlier in the year was dumped. Guess what we are hunting with this year! 300 nmi. Along with several more animals I shot with it last season. If I know how to post a video I would