full length or neck sizing on a short fat case?

[SSG Graybush]

Recently I decided on a new rifle chambered in 6.8W. Now looking at all the reloading dies available, I see most brands are offering a full-size die set, there are a few that offer a neck sizing die. Which is better for a short fat cartridge like the 6.8W? I reload quite a few different calibers already, new cases are full length sized, after they are fire formed, the cases are then neck sized only. But now having my first short and fat cases to deal with, I'm not sure if I can or should reload as I have with other the calibers I have.

Just bump the shoulder back 2 thou from fired like any case, when you full length size. If you don't have bullet and headspace comparators, get them and learn how to properly set up your dies.
I recommend Redding dies. Get a good bushing die set, a caliper seating stem is also nice to have. Measure your fired bass's neck, Subtract 2 or 3 thou and thats the Bushing size you need, to start with anyway. NEVER use a seater die to roll crimp. If you must crimp, use a collet crimper like the Lee factory crimping dies. Only super hard recoiling calibers and some tube magazine rifles need crimped. Other then that don't crimp.

 

[Mike6158]

PARTIAL FL SIZE is the CORRECT term. Bumping shoulders less than what the die is capable of doing is described above.
If you are screwing the die in until contact with the shell holder and locking it in place like that is NOT FL SIZING…

Cheers.

Technically speaking, partial full length isn't possible. It's either partial or full length. 98% is less than 100%.

I set the shoulder back .002 and based on what I see at the base of the case, I'm almost full length sizing... aka partial. I don't recall any caliber that I reload for ever being sized all the way. I don't get clickers so I guess I'm sizing it good enough.

It's surprisingly easy to achieve .002 setback IF every piece of fired brass has the same base to shoulder length. My 7mm Rem Mag Peterson brass usually varies a few thousandths. I've checked it immediatly after firing, then checked it before sizing, then after sizing, and if time passes before I reload it (don't do that anymore), I check it again. It's not always the same not sized or sized. The point being, brass moves. The brass I just rambled on about settles down after the 3rd firing.

 

[sturner]

FULL length

 

[Reemty J]

If Lance says full length then that is what I’ll do, he forgot more on reloading than I know!

 

[ButterBean]

This is true.
But his last sentence, the way I read it, leaves him open to other ideas.




This would be a good opportunity to learn how to shoulder bump with a FL die, IMO.
Otherwise, it does not matter which method you use. Short fat cases do not affect method.

Technically speaking, partial full length isn't possible. It's either partial or full length. 98% is less than 100%.

I set the shoulder back .002 and based on what I see at the base of the case, I'm almost full length sizing... aka partial. I don't recall any caliber that I reload for ever being sized all the way. I don't get clickers so I guess I'm sizing it good enough.

It's surprisingly easy to achieve .002 setback IF every piece of fired brass has the same base to shoulder length. My 7mm Rem Mag Peterson brass usually varies a few thousandths. I've checked it immediatly after firing, then checked it before sizing, then after sizing, and if time passes before I reload it (don't do that anymore), I check it again. It's not always the same not sized or sized. The point being, brass moves. The brass I just rambled on about settles down after the 3rd firing.

And here we go again. Let me go ahead and clear it all up, until you get $300 dollars of dies, bushings and mandrels, a $1000 dollar annealing machine, Primer pocket seating depth tool, A neck turning setup ( inside and outside), 5 different kinds of case lube, a bullet seating resistance gauge, adjustable shell holders, and a bore scope I wouldn't even attempt to reload the first round, Oh yeah and don't forget to check for a carbon ring cause it gonna be a lot problems.

 

[sturner]

And here we go again. Let me go ahead and clear all up, until you get $300 dollars of dies, bushings and mandrels, a $1000 dollar annealing machine, Primer pocket seating depth tool, A neck turning setup ( inside and outside), 5 different kinds of case lube, a bullet seating resistance gauge, adjustable shell holders, and a bore scope I wouldn't even attempt to reload the first round, Oh yeah and don't forget to check for a carbon ring cause it gonna be a lot problems.


View attachment 582634

Don't know how we ever got started without all the mandatory equipment
Heck I didn't own a chronograph until 05

 

[FEENIX]

Jeff has a nicely done how-to video of bumping the shoulder.

 

[cajun]

Full length. Get the hornady gauge and measure how much sizing your doing.

 

[Mike6158]

A neck turning setup ( inside and outside), 5 different kinds of case lube, a bullet seating resistance gauge, adjustable shell holders

I'll take an iDoD if you have one you want to get rid of. Some of what I load seems to like to make donuts and I hear the iDoD can fix that. I only have three kinds of case lube but I don't shoot competitively. Everyone knows that a specific case lube is important for accuracy. uh... no... it's important if you don't want to ruin a good die but that's about it.

AMP annealer - yup. AMP press - yup. Primer pocket seating depth tool - yup. It's faster than the Sinclair but I think I like the Sinclair tool better. Adjustable shell holders, don't need those with a Co-Ax press.

Where in the he double toothpicks are you going to find dies, bushings, and mandrels for $300.00???

It sounds like I can finally start reloading! After 30 years of reloading I can finally start!!

 

[crkckr]

To neck or not to neck, is that the question? Hmmm. I let the rifle decide on that. If I can easily chamber a fired round, I neck size. If not, I full length size. I load for my buddies 22-250 and every case has to be full length resized to get a case back in the chamber, including new brass that has never been in another rifle. Doesn't matter what brand of brass (including Lapua), every case has to be FL sized to get the cartridge back in the chamber without using a block of wood! My custom .308 doesn't seem to need FL sizing except every 4th or 5th firing and is perfectly happy with neck sizing. Semiautos, of course, get FL sized.

Of course, everything depends on what you want out of the rifle, too. If you're happy with anything under .5" inch as I am, you only need one kind of lube (Imperial for rifle, RCBS for pistol) and RCBS dies and a Rockchucker press gets the job done just fine. I've got $300.00 worth of dies, maybe more, but that's for all of them, including pistol! I've got a nice dial indicator and an RCBS case run out set up that I rarely use.

If I'm going on an important hurt, I FL all the brass. I only use Nosler Partirions and have sold hunting rifles that wouldn't shoot them as well as I demand. I like Leupold glass and have them on all my hunting rifles, although I don't hunt much anymore. Too old!

Unless you're planning on shooting out to a 1000 yards or going for benchrest accuracy, you can definitely go overboard on some things. Just doing one little thing, such as monitoring bullet seating tension, isn't going to make much of a difference alone. Add up all the little things and you might find you can't actually shoot well enough to see the difference.

Ok, so if you can shoot that well and feel the need for bug holes at 500 yards and beyond (and have a rifle capable of doing so), you have to play the game, spend the big bucks and buy the right tools. It all depends on what you want out of a given rifle and how much time and money you're willing to put out for it! Choose carefully or you can end up spending a bunch of money for nothing!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[Mike6158]

It all depends on what you want out of a given rifle and how much time and money you're willing to put out for it!

The answer to everything sewed up into one easy to read sentence. Well done.

 

[CubCouper]

I'm not sure why this question comes up anymore... neck sizing only is largely a holdover idea from the early 70's Benchrest when the accepted thought was that it lead to brass that perfectly fit a particular chamber. Practice at that time was to to 'smith the chamber and brass so that they sometimes didn't even need to be run through the die (a "fitted" neck). It sounded logical and for awhile folks jumped on the bandwagon... results were generally dismal. Inconsistent necks (via carbon build-up) lead to pressure spikes. Brass life sucked. It really took until the early 2000's for the neck sizing nonsense to fade away.

That said, I keep a Wilson bushing neck die around just for the 1st (and possibly 2nd) firing when I'm fire-forming brass that will need a hit or two to reach full chamber dimension.

Beyond that, FL resize all the time.

The #1 trick to long brass life (besides not hot-rodding the loads) is in FL die setup. Movement over .004" causes metalurgic changes in the brass (essentially work-hardening) so bushing dies like the Redding Type S variety that don't stretch, then squeeze the necks generally make cracked necks a historical footnote. Get a shoulder bump gauge and using several pieces of freshly once-fired brass, adjust the die in your press until you get 1-1/2 to 2 thou (.0015-.002") of bump. Use a fresh piece of brass for each adjustment -- once they've been through the die, they'll give you a false reading.

I've got brass for my competition guns that has been fired well over 200 times using this method. Never annealed. Only trimmed a couple times.

 

[Mikecr]

There can be goals and plans.
And we have lots of options for pretty much any plan.

By the way, nothing has improved since the early 1970s. Nothing has actually changed.
We are at any given time inside of cycles that keep coming and going and coming back.
If you hang on every word from some Youtube demigod today, then look for anything they say that actually departs from a 1970s gun rag article. Do you think they didn't do everything we do today - in the 50s? Do you think they shot worse?

I began reloading in 1975. I cannot think of a single thing that has changed in reloading.

 

[RichCoyle]

I'm not sure why this question comes up anymore... neck sizing only is largely a holdover idea from the early 70's Benchrest when the accepted thought was that it lead to brass that perfectly fit a particular chamber. Practice at that time was to to 'smith the chamber and brass so that they sometimes didn't even need to be run through the die (a "fitted" neck). It sounded logical and for awhile folks jumped on the bandwagon... results were generally dismal. Inconsistent necks (via carbon build-up) lead to pressure spikes. Brass life sucked. It really took until the early 2000's for the neck sizing nonsense to fade away.

That said, I keep a Wilson bushing neck die around just for the 1st (and possibly 2nd) firing when I'm fire-forming brass that will need a hit or two to reach full chamber dimension.

Beyond that, FL resize all the time.

The #1 trick to long brass life (besides not hot-rodding the loads) is in FL die setup. Movement over .004" causes metalurgic changes in the brass (essentially work-hardening) so bushing dies like the Redding Type S variety that don't stretch, then squeeze the necks generally make cracked necks a historical footnote. Get a shoulder bump gauge and using several pieces of freshly once-fired brass, adjust the die in your press until you get 1-1/2 to 2 thou (.0015-.002") of bump. Use a fresh piece of brass for each adjustment -- once they've been through the die, they'll give you a false reading.

I've got brass for my competition guns that has been fired well over 200 times using this method. Never annealed. Only trimmed a couple times.

I proved conclusively my .223 preferred a neck sized load over full length sized with several five shot groups over several weeks.

I guess when someone whom one respects says something it becomes gospel; facts don't matter.