neck size or full length size?????

[BountyHunter]

Neil jones dies are great along with a custom die from your smith off the resize reamers.

However, you might have another much cheaper option if a standard case.

buy a Redding body bump dies ($25) and send it to Jim Carstenson at JLC Precision along with 10 cases fired 2x.

For about $80 he will convert the body die to a custom honed to your chamber FL bushing size die that uses Redding bushings. Turn around is normally less than 2 weeks.

Jims info is at www.6mmbr.com under the "Tools" section

I more than a few of Jims dies and work great.

BH

 

[trueblue]

I full length resize with a FL bushing die. Set it up to bump the shoulder and use a bushing to give 2-3 thou neck tension. No sizing button used. Also trim my necks to clean them up. This process seems to work very well for me.

 

[MTBULLET]

I neck size only until the brass is tight to chamber, then throw it away and start with new. Usually get 9-10 loadings from it.

 

[bowhunthard88]

I full length size enough to just bump my shoulder back .001- .002 on ALL of my cartridges. My customs shoot 'bug holes' at 200, my factory's shoot very well too. Good brass is a must. I'm a firm believer in annealing too especially in my big 30 cal after 3-4 firings.

I agree with the above (except I don't anneal YET lol), I have been doing this for the past year, and have shot some great groups. It does make a difference as to what dies you are using tho. Usually as a rule, FL sizing slightly reduces brass life. But... in a hot caliber (if you neck size) you're going to have to bump the shoulder every couple of shots anyway. Why not take care of it all at once and keep it consistent shot to shot.

You can get a set of Hornady FL dies custom made for a decent price, you need to send them some once fired brass. Just something you might want to look in to.

Good luck.

 

[Bart B]

I full length size with a die whose neck's been lapped out to a couple thousandths smaller than a loaded round and set the fired case shoulder back just 2 thousandths. (Depriming then cleaning cases before sizing them.) With several barrels in .308 Win., I get 40+ reloads per case without annealing. Two 30 caliber belted magnums and two barrels each, got 15 to 20 reloads per case, but these had to double sized; second time with a body-only die that sized just the case body completely to the belt down to about new case diameters to get rid of that tiny ridge right in front of the belt. New belted cases shoot just as good. All ammo's shot in standard SAAMI chambers. Accuracy with the .308's been 1/3 MOA at 300, 1/2 MOA at 600 and 3/4ths MOA at 1000 for 20 shot test groups. 30 caliber magnums' tested only at 1000 yards, 3/4ths MOA for 20 shot groups. Never had to anneal a case neck.

Smallest 15+ shot test groups at 600 and 1000 yards I know of have all been shot with cases full length sized as above. Most of 'em are smaller than bench rest records for the same number of shots.

Sierra Bullets been full length sizing all their cases used to test bullets. They now use Redding Full Bushing Dies for calibers they're available in otherwise standard Redding full length dies.

If one checks how rimless bottleneck cases sized neck only or full length fits the chamber when fired, they'll learn the difference is negligable and it's only at the back end of the chamber. Up front, they're the same.

I tried various form of partial neck sizing such that the case headspace is a tad longer than chamber headspace; the bolt very slightly binds as it closes on the case. Never got good accuracy this way, especially with bolts whose face ain't squared with the chamber axis. However, this method typically produces better accuracy than full length sizing where the fired case shoulder's set back too far.

 

[bigbuck]

I full length size with a die whose neck's been lapped out to a couple thousandths smaller than a loaded round and set the fired case shoulder back just 2 thousandths. (Depriming then cleaning cases before sizing them.) With several barrels in .308 Win., I get 40+ reloads per case without annealing. Two 30 caliber belted magnums and two barrels each, got 15 to 20 reloads per case, but these had to double sized; second time with a body-only die that sized just the case body completely to the belt down to about new case diameters to get rid of that tiny ridge right in front of the belt. New belted cases shoot just as good. All ammo's shot in standard SAAMI chambers. Accuracy with the .308's been 1/3 MOA at 300, 1/2 MOA at 600 and 3/4ths MOA at 1000 for 20 shot test groups. 30 caliber magnums' tested only at 1000 yards, 3/4ths MOA for 20 shot groups. Never had to anneal a case neck.

Smallest 15+ shot test groups at 600 and 1000 yards I know of have all been shot with cases full length sized as above. Most of 'em are smaller than bench rest records for the same number of shots.

Sierra Bullets been full length sizing all their cases used to test bullets. They now use Redding Full Bushing Dies for calibers they're available in otherwise standard Redding full length dies.

If one checks how rimless bottleneck cases sized neck only or full length fits the chamber when fired, they'll learn the difference is negligable and it's only at the back end of the chamber. Up front, they're the same.

I tried various form of partial neck sizing such that the case headspace is a tad longer than chamber headspace; the bolt very slightly binds as it closes on the case. Never got good accuracy this way, especially with bolts whose face ain't squared with the chamber axis. However, this method typically produces better accuracy than full length sizing where the fired case shoulder's set back too far.

How do I know and measure my shoulder to see if it is set back to far?
What kind of tool do you use?

Thanks

Bigbuck

 

[Bart B]

How do I know and measure my shoulder to see if it is set back to far? What kind of tool do you use?

I use an RCBS Precision Mic. Hornady and others also make tools that does the same thing.

Fired cases are put in the tool and the case headspace (head to shoulder reference, or datum) from case head to shoulder is measured. After full length sizing, the sized case is measured to see how much shorter the case headspace is.

Any more than 2 thousandths shorter is too much. You'll get a 1 thousandths spread across your cases if they're lubed uniformly. Other wise, too little lube results in not enough shoulder setback and to much lube lets the shoulder get set back too far.

Redding sells shell holders in 2 thousandths steps over the standard so one that lets your die just touch it at the top of the ram's stroke will result in uniform fire case head setback.

 

[woods]

How do I know and measure my shoulder to see if it is set back to far?
What kind of tool do you use?

Thanks

Bigbuck

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set with Comparator - MidwayUSA

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment
Case Gauges & Headspace Tools - RCBS Precision Mic Cartridge Headspace Tool

 

[bigbuck]

I use an RCBS Precision Mic. Hornady and others also make tools that does the same thing.

Fired cases are put in the tool and the case headspace (head to shoulder reference, or datum) from case head to shoulder is measured. After full length sizing, the sized case is measured to see how much shorter the case headspace is.

Any more than 2 thousandths shorter is too much. You'll get a 1 thousandths spread across your cases if they're lubed uniformly. Other wise, too little lube results in not enough shoulder setback and to much lube lets the shoulder get set back too far.

Redding sells shell holders in 2 thousandths steps over the standard so one that lets your die just touch it at the top of the ram's stroke will result in uniform fire case head setback.

Great, thanks alot my wish list just got bigger

 

[bigbuck]

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set with Comparator - MidwayUSA

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment
Case Gauges & Headspace Tools - RCBS Precision Mic Cartridge Headspace Tool

Thanks for the Pic this is gettin better all the time

Bigbuck

 

[bowhunthard88]

I agree with the above post. The Hornady L-N-L Headspace Gauge Set works great, I've been using this for about 2 years and would recommend it to anyone.
If you are going to get it, I'd also recommend getting the L-N-L bullet comparator set also.

Good luck.

 

[Bart B]

Finally found my old plot sheet I used when testing my new Kreiger barrel in my .30-.338 Keele Mag. (.300 Win. Mag. cases full length sized in a standard .30-.338 Win. Mag die; neck's a bit longer). All 30 shots fired consecutive, once every 20 to 30 seconds.

Sierra 190's (black dots) were previously fired, then full length sized normally then again with a body die to get the ridge next to the belt reduced to new case diameter. Die's neck was lapped out to 2 thousandths smaller than loaded round neck diameter.

Sierra 200's (red dots) were fired in new, virgin brass, just full length sized to set the .300 Win Mag shoulder back, no neck turning or any case prep at all.

Chamber's a standard SAAMI dimension.

Here's what my .308 Palma rifle does with full length sized cases:

I tried neck sizing, partial neck sizing with both barrels when new. Groups were 2 to 4 times as big; largest with partial neck sizing with the bolt binding ever so slightly when closed on a round.

 

[john g duvall]

As the title reads I was wandering if you guys neck size or full length size. I have a Rem 300 RUM with a custom barrel I use Federal 215 M primers Nosler custom brass retumbo powder topped with a 210G Berger. If I can get a tad bit more accuracey out of it by neck sizing only I will do it what's your experience and or advice? All is welcome. I'm interested in shooting bug holes as far as the eye can see

Bigbuck

Hello "Big Buck". I use a custom built Akley Improved 300 Win Mag. Lonnie Hummel (CHIEF ENGINEER) of Hornady out in Grand Island Nebraska said I needed full sized dies($300.00!!!) If it loads properly then look at this. It is from Sept 2009 at 400 yards. Notice that my powder loads were not "on" until I hit 71.2 grains of R-22. The last three shots were at 71.2 gr. There are 8 witness signatures that verify 3 holes on the cross hairs at 400 yards. I put two of these holes there. Don Sanders put the third "hole in a hole". It measured .523 inch. covered it with a dime. It is the weapon and load that works. Donny is 5'9" tall and weighs about 240lbs. I'm 6'1" and weigh 195. Two different breathing patterns, heart beats, eye reliefs etc. with the same result. Full size works with Nosler 5 star custom brass, Fed GMM 215 primers, 71.2 gr of R-22 and seating a 210 grain Sierra HPBT Matchking(BC.650) at .001 to the lans and grooves. T. Sarver set the 1000 record using a 240 gr. Sierra BTHP Matchking out of a .338 Lapua necked down to 30 cal. 1.4 inch 5 shot group, scored 50 five x!!!! It is on the web so...check it out. My picutre won't load so write and I'll send it. [email protected]

 

[1357MAG]

I am glad to see that there is much to benefit from me reading this post. I am a new member here.
My father and I just had this conversation the other day. He had asked me why I wasn't neck sizing as I am only shooting my brass in one rifle? If anyone wants to give me some direction on making a decision here, I am all ears.
Thanks!