fastest 338 without the Cheytac

[Fiftydriver]

WinMag,

We did extensive testing to see how many FPS were gained per inch of barrel or should I say lost per inch of barrel with most of my wildcats ranging from the 257 Allen Magnum up to the 510 AM.

These are the results we came up with taking the average FPS loss per inch from 30" down to 26" in one inch steps. The process was to chrono 5 rounds at 30". Then cut 1" off the muzzle, recrown, retest with another 5 rounds and repeat until we got to 26". Then we took the fps loss for all steps and averaged them out.

257 Allen Magnum..............................48 fps/inch
6.5mm Allen Magnum.........................47 fps/inch
270 Allen Magnum..............................38 fps/inch
7mm Allen Magnum............................34 fps/inch
300 Allen Xpress.................................23 fps/inch
338 Allen Xpress.................................16 fps/inch
338 Allen Magnum..............................31 fps/inch
375 Allen Magnum..............................22 fps/inch
50 Allen Tactical..................................9 fps/inch
510 Allen Magnum..............................29 fps/inch

Not once during the entire testing did we see a full 50 fps loss in velocity with an inch taken off the barrel. The smaller the bore size and larger the case capacity the more velocity per inch you will loose. It also seemed that the lighter bullet weights produced higher velocity loss per inch of barrel length. All of the above numbers were using heavy for caliber bullet weights in each caliber.

Now these are about the most extreme wildcats in each represented caliber family, on average, you will see much less velocity drop per inch then these numbers. In reality, for most conventional small to medium bore chamberings, you will likely see 20 to 25 fps MAX velocity gain per inch of barrel length.

So, why go with the longer barrels to begin with, well, in many chamberings, it does not make alot of sense to go with a very long barrel. But for some it does make sense. For example look at my 338 Allen Magnum. In a 26" barrel length you will get just under 3200 fps with the 300 gr SMK with my recommended loads which are not overly hot. Still, you put that same load in my standard 32 or 34" barrel length and your looking at 3380 and 3440 fps respectively with the 300 gr SMK. That is a very noticable increase in performance, some ballistically, alot terminally.

Add to that, the added 6 to 8" longer barrel lengths in this chambering DRAMATICALLY reduce the muzzle blast intensity to the shooter making them extremely comfortable to shoot, much more so then the shorter barrel lengths. So in many cases, a very long barrel is not really needed but depending on the use of the rifle, it may make the rifle much more pleasant to shoot in the field.

 

[winmag]

Thanks Kirby, I just re-read this entire thread, as its been, like a year since I've seen it.
Someday when I get out of construction, & get a real job I'm gonna save my pennys, & finally go with a full on custom. I've learned sooooo much here, from folks like you & many others, that I just gotta take the next step when I can afford it. I hope that day comes sooner than later haha.
Thanks again for the info.

 

[Autorotate]

Lazzeroni 8.59 (.338) Titan is the most powerful commerically loaded and available 338 magnum in the world ,,,,,

Is there a precision potential guarantee that comes with Lazzeroni rifles or ammunition?

What bullets are available in commerically loaded Titan ammunition?

Are the powders used in this ammunition temperature tolerant?

Thanks.

 

[Autorotate]

WinMag,

We did extensive testing to see how many FPS were gained per inch of barrel or should I say lost per inch of barrel with most of my wildcats ranging from the 257 Allen Magnum up to the 510 AM.

These are the results we came up with taking the average FPS loss per inch from 30" down to 26" in one inch steps. The process was to chrono 5 rounds at 30". Then cut 1" off the muzzle, recrown, retest with another 5 rounds and repeat until we got to 26". Then we took the fps loss for all steps and averaged them out.

257 Allen Magnum..............................48 fps/inch
6.5mm Allen Magnum.........................47 fps/inch
270 Allen Magnum..............................38 fps/inch
7mm Allen Magnum............................34 fps/inch
300 Allen Xpress.................................23 fps/inch
338 Allen Xpress.................................16 fps/inch
338 Allen Magnum..............................31 fps/inch
375 Allen Magnum..............................22 fps/inch
50 Allen Tactical..................................9 fps/inch
510 Allen Magnum..............................29 fps/inch

Not once during the entire testing did we see a full 50 fps loss in velocity with an inch taken off the barrel. The smaller the bore size and larger the case capacity the more velocity per inch you will loose. It also seemed that the lighter bullet weights produced higher velocity loss per inch of barrel length. All of the above numbers were using heavy for caliber bullet weights in each caliber.

Now these are about the most extreme wildcats in each represented caliber family, on average, you will see much less velocity drop per inch then these numbers. In reality, for most conventional small to medium bore chamberings, you will likely see 20 to 25 fps MAX velocity gain per inch of barrel length.

So, why go with the longer barrels to begin with, well, in many chamberings, it does not make alot of sense to go with a very long barrel. But for some it does make sense. For example look at my 338 Allen Magnum. In a 26" barrel length you will get just under 3200 fps with the 300 gr SMK with my recommended loads which are not overly hot. Still, you put that same load in my standard 32 or 34" barrel length and your looking at 3380 and 3440 fps respectively with the 300 gr SMK. That is a very noticable increase in performance, some ballistically, alot terminally.

Add to that, the added 6 to 8" longer barrel lengths in this chambering DRAMATICALLY reduce the muzzle blast intensity to the shooter making them extremely comfortable to shoot, much more so then the shorter barrel lengths. So in many cases, a very long barrel is not really needed but depending on the use of the rifle, it may make the rifle much more pleasant to shoot in the field.

Excellent of you to share that testing data.

 

[Autorotate]

Re-reading this thread....not to be argumentative....but I'll put this out there again....

Anyone shooting a consistent 1 MOA at a mile with a 10.5 lb rifle, I'd be interested in seeing the video. After the video, I'd honestly/humbly be interested learning from the shooter, his path/combination to get there.

And just to be clear....I'm not that guy that because it's beyond me at my present state of expertise/proficiency/technicals...that it can't be done.

But I do hate to see good honest folks be led astray and go down a painful, frustrating, expensive road chasing a potentially unobtainable goal that they read on the internet.

Good shooting.gun)

 

[Fiftydriver]

Coming from someone that has personally shot three shot groups at a mile that measured under 5" ctc on several occasions, I would really have to see a 10.5 lb rifle that would consistantly shoot 1 moa at a mile.

I am certainly not saying its not possible to get this level of consistance from time to time but to get this consistancy all the time, I would just have to see it to believe it.

Now 1 moa at 1000 yards, CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. Ship them out all the time that will easily do this but thats alot different then 1760 yards!!!

 

[Savvyup]

With the previous mentioned cartridges is there one that is inherently more accurate?

 

[LazzInc]

Autorotate ,,,,,

Yes ,,,, accuracy is guaranteed 1 moa or less to 500 yards with the best Lazzeroni factory loaded ammo for each caliber that we load for ,,,,,

with the Lazz Warbird caliber, the 168gr HPBT load is the most accurate of all our factory loads ,,,,, in the 8.59 (.338) Titan caliber, the best factory load is our 185gr LazerHead, but I have also seen the 200gr Nosler B-Tip shoot extremely well at long range in the Lazz Titan caliber ,,,, (((well under MOA at 500 yards ))) ,,,,

in addition, I can take my own personal Lazzeroni rifle, thumbhole model with 25" barrel, 7.82 (.308) Warbird caliber, 5-25X56 S&B PMII scope, 168gr factory loads & set it up on the bench at 1,000 and keep three shots under 10" pretty regular ,,,,,,

We use reloader 19 or IMR-7828 for most of the Lazz factory loads, ((lubricated bullets only please)) with FED 215M primers, and these are some of the most temperature stable powders available within this general burning rate ,,,,

as for shooting a mile ? ,,,,, have not ever done it, but there is a 14" gong at around 1,250 yards, just past the end of the 1,000 yard range here in Tucson, that I used to be pretty good at hitting with the very same rifle I carry into the field for hunting ,,,,

But all you guys have a ton more experience at the real extreme ranges than I have ,,,

 

[trueblue]

I am the OP that started this thread, so I would like to give an update.
My friend went with a wildcat build shooting the 180's SMK out of his 284 THOR.
Anyway, I recently joined the mile club this winter while shooting with a friend named Maverick, in Texas. Thanks, Maverick.
I was shooting my 338 EDGE built for me by R BROS which weighs 13# scoped up.
Cold bore hit at 1000 yards, but then moving to a mile was a huge jump in difficulty.
I don't see how a #10 1/2 rifle would make this any easier.
If you are looking for shooting that kind of range with a rifle, it would be wise to have some weight in the rifle build to make it a stable shooting platform.

 

[big bore al]

i have a 338 edge 32in full bull barrel in a mjr plaster ultimet sniper stk it shoots the 250 hpbt at just over 3200 fps with better than 1 moa that load is full max and the brass is trash after with vary louse primer pocket put it will do it fo a long range hunt. My standerd load pushes 250s at 3075 and no psi problums. I carred this gun and a back pack with gear into the mts of Montana the gun is about 16lbs and the pack about 40 we hicked up and down the mts for miles from sun up to sun down every day for 2 weeks.The first day i thaught i was going to die the next was beter and by the 3rd day it was like walking down a straight sidewalk. Mostly do to the fact that i live in mi where we are about 700ft above sea levale and out there was 5000-7000 . So i would say pick the gun and cal that will do what you want it to and condition your self for the hunt. Best of luck have fun.

 

[MT4XFore]

I am shooting 250 Berger OTM's very comfortably out of my 338 Allen Express. Taken a number of deer a various ranges with it and continue to assassinate terrorist rocks out to beyond 1000 yds. Great shooting gun and the brass holds up very well. Oh, and that's in a 28" barrel.