Fast Twist 270 Win vs. 6.8 Western

[madarcher427]

Just curious what about a 270 AI with a faster twist rate. What is the G1 of the new longer bullets?

 

[Mike Matteson]

Yep, ordering a 26" 1:8 twist and longer throat as result. The .270 Win offers a lot benefits in faster twist and higher BC bullets for those who like the caliber. If you don't like the .270 Win, nothing will change that. I see the .270 twist change no different that what has happened to the 300WM. Faster twist now on factory rifles for the heavyweights. The .270 Win brass is easily found, cheap, great neck for longer bullets, good velocity with newer powders like RL26. Recoil for some is always a decision but it is nicer than most. The COAL needed may require some magazine changes but that is no different than what we did for the 300WM to accommodate the longer heavier bullets. I ran a ladder with a 24" barrel and was surprised by results but since have confirmed to be normal for the powder and bullets. All the different caliber suggestions instead are nice but if you like the .270 this ups the game for it. Is it a .270 WSM? No but never meant to be and still provides a nice niche for shooters. Maybe we should call it .270CM to satisfy the need for a new glitzy caliber name?

"The 170 EOL topped out at 3067 with very slight ejector that was hard to see but I felt good enough. The 165 Matrix was 3079 but No Pressure. Did not run ladder deep enough since I was surprised by load."

LRH LINK: RL26 .270

I am having a Rem 700 Action that was a 270 being converted to a 6mm-280IA. That very interesting on what you have put out there. I don't have a 270 in my collection, but have been looking at it for some time. I have probable been around 150 deer taken with 270 in years gone by with 130gr Sierra SPBT with IMR4831. No real meat loss to being blood shot with that combination. I have always felt that it was one the better rounds for deer hunting.

 

[Muddyboots]

For those who care. I've found that the Savage Overwatch in .270 has an impressive magazine length.; ~ 3.5000"
I ran out of throat before I ran out of magazine. With my 145gr ELDX. My sweet spot was 3.3725" with ~ .0100" jump. Too bad it is only a 1:10 twist. Might be worth looking at that magazine for the 170gr Nosler. Just my 2c

That is awesome! Thanks! Will be looking at them for sure. If you haven't done so can you provide specifics to the magazine etc to the thread:
LINK: List/Index of Factory magazine COAL

 

[Starlite]

Sure would like to know how they recorded their velocities back then. Loaded with cordite? IIRC, this cartridge's claim to fame was that it got people eaten who went lion hunting with it.

Trigonometry or a stop watch I'd suppose. In the military we were trianed in estimating distance of incoming shots. Crank -thump. The sound of the cracks of bullets and the sound of them being fired. Time multiple by speed of sound = distance.

 

[budlight]

Anyone re-barrel a 270 Win to a faster twist for the heavy for caliber bullets? I'm looking for real world velocities with let's say 165 gr Nosler LR Accubonds or other heavies. I see the new 6.8 Western is advertising factory ammo at 2970 fps for the 165 LR Accubond and am curious how much speed is gained with the Western over a fast twist 270 Win. Thank you.

Yes, I have a 9 twist rate 29 inch target barreled 270 win. It shoots 175 grain very well. Not enough powder capacity to shoot the 190's or maybe even 8 twist. The higher the velocity the less twist rate required to stabilize the bullet out to very long ranges. My barrel is also longer throated to shoot longer 169.5 VLD pills which makes it a single shot

I read up on the 6.8 but decreasing the case capacity of 10% less than the 270 WSM parent case and the longer throat to accommodate longer bullets. Which is the norm for many of the new rounds on the market. I was looking into the 6mm ARC. I already have 243 varminting rifles, so it was a nogo to the decreased ARC

So IMO the best option for heavy bullets is to use the biggest case volume for the slowest powders, the longer barrels for additional velocity, least twist practical for your heaviest pill. I also have a 270win AI and the 270 WSM.

They use fuzzy math to tell you that the 6.8 is better over 500 yards. But they are not talking Apples and Apples. They are talking higher heavier BC bullet in a 6.8 Well my same weight bullet with a 100-300 fps advantage will smoke the 6.8 at 500 yards on energy

 

[skipglo]

As P.O. said, up to a point more powder equals more velocity.

I find the sudden love for the 270 amusing. I forsee more orphan cartridges to join the SAUMs, WSMs, 325, 307, 356 and so on.

When someone can tell me what any of these "new" 270s can do that cannot be equalled by the boring old 7mm RemMag IN REAL WORLD PRACTICAL HUNTING SITUATIONS I'll listen.

So what can the 7mm do that the 270 can't do that the 300wm can't do that the 300 Weatherby can't do....that..It's just a game called marketing! And with the dramatic shortages of all reloading components and factory shells ......I think it's an awesome idea to dilute the market further with just another ME TOO RIFLE in ANY CALIBER TODAY

 

[Starlite]

That is awesome! Thanks! Will be looking at them for sure. If you haven't done so can you provide specifics to the magazine etc to the thread:
LINK: List/Index of Factory magazine COAL

Done

 

[ButterBean]

Many of our members may not be aware "there is nothin new under the sun."

I guess your the authority here now 23 days in and all, but this ain't your first go around here is it ? and Mr Ackley who was ahead of his time did not have the plethora of powders available today, there are substantial gains to be had now with the AI in .277 and the Op did not ask for a comparison to the 7 mag , Derailed in the second post with absolutely nothing pertaining to the question, what a way to help folks out

 

[budlight]

Personally I don't like the 7 mag either because of low case capacity. I'm a 28 inch 7STW wildcat person.

So when a 7 mag is popping primers to get less velocity than the 7 stw it's a no brainer.

So the same goes for the 6.8. Case capacity wins!

Muddyboots, post on R-26 and 26 inch 270W 8 twist is correct. Although If you are barreling a rifle why not 28 or 30 inches.

For heavy .277 pills I went through a progression of slow powders as they came out. Retumbo, H1000, r-25, r-26. I always wanted to buy r-33 and do some testing in 270AI and 270 wsm

 

[ButterBean]

Anyone re-barrel a 270 Win to a faster twist for the heavy for caliber bullets? I'm looking for real world velocities with let's say 165 gr Nosler LR Accubonds or other heavies. I see the new 6.8 Western is advertising factory ammo at 2970 fps for the 165 LR Accubond and am curious how much speed is gained with the Western over a fast twist 270 Win. Thank you.

I have no hands on experience with The Western but it looks like a good one but a fast twist 270 AI would be my pick, With today's powders there is quite a bit to be gained I don't know what kind of bullets your interested in but with the Hammers it would be a very bad egg, and the fact that factory 270 will be one of the easiest to find when things calm down leans me that way as well

 

[Starlite]

Has anyone loaded a heavy pill in the SigSauer Fury? Or the 27 Nosler?
Their not available here. Are they on shelves anywhere yet?

 

[chutinlead]

Sure would like to know how they recorded their velocities back then. Loaded with cordite? IIRC, this cartridge's claim to fame was that it got people eaten who went lion hunting with it.

Look up an old book by franklin mann. He was measuring velocity by 2 spinning wheels a set distance apart and could measure how much the wheel rotated between hitting the first and second disc. Would be a fun science experiment today lol.

 

[freddiej]

As P.O. said, up to a point more powder equals more velocity.

I find the sudden love for the 270 amusing. I forsee more orphan cartridges to join the SAUMs, WSMs, 325, 307, 356 and so on.

When someone can tell me what any of these "new" 270s can do that cannot be equalled by the boring old 7mm RemMag IN REAL WORLD PRACTICAL HUNTING SITUATIONS I'll listen.

My love of the 270 caliber happened back in 1986 with this really dusty, Savage 110 rifle on the wall for $125.00. It was chambered in 270 Win. I never really was in love with the 7MM, honestly I hated the dang thing from the minute I read about it. I knew little about the 270 win except that I had read lots of people/gun writers hating on it and some singing it's praises. I am not a main stream caliber guy so I like the odd ball calibers. 270 Win turned out to be very accurate, extremely deadly to deer, pronghorn, and it exploded ground squirrels. the 7MM R/M is a magnum class case. the 270 Win is not, the only drawback to the 30-06 based case until you neck it down to 257 caliber. that went away when some really great wildcatter put the 270 slug in a 264 W/M-7MM R/M case. then the 270 and the 7MM became equals. In the gun I had made up in Montana that wildcat was more accurate than any of the 7MM R/M cult's guns could offer up. the deadliness of the 270 versus the 7MM is negligible in actuality. the slugs are 0.007" difference. Not much at all. the 7MM was hyped by the gun writers for a huge payday for the writers. it gave the 7MM more exposure than the 270. this same thing happened between the 243 win and the 244 Rem (now the 6MM Remington). One big mistake Remington did was they did not offer the 244/6MM in a 1:8" or 1:7" twist barrel that would have made it far superior to the 243 whom did offer their cartridge in a heavy twist.
I really fell in love with the caliber once I found piles of it on the shelf at the sportsman's in Rocklin, CA. I found it all over the place.. 7MM R/M, 30-06, 308 win, 30-30, and 243 win were all out but 270 was plentiful.
Now with the resurgence of the 270 caliber; the bullet manufacturers are making longer, heavier, better slugs to compete and in some cases exceed the 7MM bullets. now we, the 270 crowd, have a fighting chance to make the 7MM as obsolete as the 7MM made the 270 back in the 1980's, 1990's, and up to 2015. I might get to be the "trendy guy" on the block for being a 270 fan for the last 35 years.
Other than that, 270 and 7MM are virtually identical in most every way; lethality, stopping, down range kinetic energy, and BC are all very comparable. My suggestion is you love the 7MM, stick with it. If you are open to a reviving an old very maligned caliber, then try the 270.
BTW, I built that 270-264 Win Mag up in Montana as a huge middle finger to the guys regurgitating the line, "the 7MM R/M is the only caliber that will take down deer, pronghorn, elk, and bear effectively." Which we all know is utter horse manure. My go to gun for Deer and Elk was my 270-264 Win Mag or my 270 Winchester. my go to gun for Moose is my 338 Win Mag. My go to gun for Bear is my 375 H&H. I do not use an inferior caliber to do the job. I go out with something I trust to do the job. I have seen a guy with a 7MM R/M take 7 rounds to put down a rather tough inland brown bear. that is too many shots. The guy nearly died on that mountain. If I had not put one or two rounds of Hornady DGX out of my 375 H&H that guy would have been dead.
In all honesty; 7MM does not work for me. It never has, it never will. If it works for you then I am happy for you. Like I said with the new advances in 270 slugs with more selection, more weights, and more development, the 270 and the 7MM are so close to being equals it really does not matter which one you have. all that matters is bullet selection and shot placement.

Sorry Y'all. this got away from me.

 

[Starlite]

My love of the 270 caliber happened back in 1986 with this really dusty, Savage 110 rifle on the wall for $125.00. It was chambered in 270 Win. I never really was in love with the 7MM, honestly I hated the dang thing from the minute I read about it. I knew little about the 270 win except that I had read lots of people/gun writers hating on it and some singing it's praises. I am not a main stream caliber guy so I like the odd ball calibers. 270 Win turned out to be very accurate, extremely deadly to deer, pronghorn, and it exploded ground squirrels. the 7MM R/M is a magnum class case. the 270 Win is not, the only drawback to the 30-06 based case until you neck it down to 257 caliber. that went away when some really great wildcatter put the 270 slug in a 264 W/M-7MM R/M case. then the 270 and the 7MM became equals. In the gun I had made up in Montana that wildcat was more accurate than any of the 7MM R/M cult's guns could offer up. the deadliness of the 270 versus the 7MM is negligible in actuality. the slugs are 0.007" difference. Not much at all. the 7MM was hyped by the gun writers for a huge payday for the writers. it gave the 7MM more exposure than the 270. this same thing happened between the 243 win and the 244 Rem (now the 6MM Remington). One big mistake Remington did was they did not offer the 244/6MM in a 1:8" or 1:7" twist barrel that would have made it far superior to the 243 whom did offer their cartridge in a heavy twist.
I really fell in love with the caliber once I found piles of it on the shelf at the sportsman's in Rocklin, CA. I found it all over the place.. 7MM R/M, 30-06, 308 win, 30-30, and 243 win were all out but 270 was plentiful.
Now with the resurgence of the 270 caliber; the bullet manufacturers are making longer, heavier, better slugs to compete and in some cases exceed the 7MM bullets. now we, the 270 crowd, have a fighting chance to make the 7MM as obsolete as the 7MM made the 270 back in the 1980's, 1990's, and up to 2015. I might get to be the "trendy guy" on the block for being a 270 fan for the last 35 years.
Other than that, 270 and 7MM are virtually identical in most every way; lethality, stopping, down range kinetic energy, and BC are all very comparable. My suggestion is you love the 7MM, stick with it. If you are open to a reviving an old very maligned caliber, then try the 270.
BTW, I built that 270-264 Win Mag up in Montana as a huge middle finger to the guys regurgitating the line, "the 7MM R/M is the only caliber that will take down deer, pronghorn, elk, and bear effectively." Which we all know is utter horse manure. My go to gun for Deer and Elk was my 270-264 Win Mag or my 270 Winchester. my go to gun for Moose is my 338 Win Mag. My go to gun for Bear is my 375 H&H. I do not use an inferior caliber to do the job. I go out with something I trust to do the job. I have seen a guy with a 7MM R/M take 7 rounds to put down a rather tough inland brown bear. that is too many shots. The guy nearly died on that mountain. If I had not put one or two rounds of Hornady DGX out of my 375 H&H that guy would have been dead.
In all honesty; 7MM does not work for me. It never has, it never will. If it works for you then I am happy for you. Like I said with the new advances in 270 slugs with more selection, more weights, and more development, the 270 and the 7MM are so close to being equals it really does not matter which one you have. all that matters is bullet selection and shot placement.

Sorry Y'all. this got away from me.

When I need my memoirs typed can I call you? That's a lot of letters down range. Impressive.