Eradicate the Wolf???!

I am seeing posts that essentially, call for the eradication of wolves, Any of us that hunt and consider ourselves conservationists in any way and part of a bigger system than ourselves, see about as much sense in that, as the eradication of the American bison. The biological system that God created, is in a balance and has been for much longer than humanity has existed. I came to the conclusion that I will never forgive those that used governmental policy and business interests to decimate the bison and just hope that each of us can look at what we see as a nuisance species and still see God's place for them.
Yeah, yeah, I know the place for them is at the tip of my 130gn GMX bullet, but you folks know what I'm saying. Cheers

I am a conservationist. I am also a realist. There simply is no room for wolves in our world today. We do not need them. They serve no purpose whatsoever. I think the argument of the wolf and bison is non-sequitur. While I agree with that the near extinction of the Bison for hides or as a method of starving native Americans was unconscionable, that agrument in no way translates to the wolf. Yes, the wolf is an animal and is due consideration by us. So lets do that. The bison, all species of deer, grazers and browsers are prey animals. Cows and sheep and dogs, cats and children are also prey animals. Wolves, coyotes, mountain lions and bears are predators. But only the canines are pack hunters. And that is the problem and the distinction being missed. A cat kills a deer a week. A pack of wolves might kill one a day. Coyotes kill and kill and then eat the organs and intestines of their prey while they are still living, often wasting the meat altogether.

Deer do not consider humans a prey species or competitor. Prey animals see humans for what we are, predators and competitors. Regardless of whether overly emotional people find that designation offensive, it remains true. Fortunately, we are also able to adjust our behavior to consider other species and our obligations to them, predators like wolves, bears and cats can not. They eat, sleep, kill and make babies who eat, sleep, kill, and make babies. While you consider all this, know that the only reason we have all the wildlife we do is thru management. That management allows game population levels that would be unsustainable without hunting and land management programs. When we reintroduce predators into a world where we are the dominant predator there could be only one outcome and it was entirely predictable. We created a world abundant in prey species. Due to our cultivation of the land, there are likley more deer in America today than when the Pilgrims landed. We manage those species thru hunting and culling. But then we want to fool ourselves into believing that God's world requires balance without considering that wolves don't follow laws, ours or God's. Cats don't know that joggers are not prey. Wolves and bears cannot read the sign that says, "please don't eat the cows, or me". Reintroducing wolves and coyotes was human hubris, nothing more. Deer herds are being decimated. In New England small game such as rabbits, partridge and pheasant etc. are becoming extinct due to the huggers tolerance of coyotes. Only now when it is a manifest disaster are people coming to understand that you cannot have both. What people need to accept is while God's plan requires balance, it also allows predators to breed based on the food supply. Lots of deer - and coyotes and wolves have larger litters. They will continue to breed to meet the abundant food supply until they effect that supply. That's when man and beasts must interface. And they do that with often horrible consequences.
The simple fact is there is no place for other apex predators to be left unchecked in our world. Predator populations MUST be kept to a controlled minimum, if allowed at all. Predators are not touchy feely cuddley critters. Having witnessed how they kill up close and personal, I'm for erradicating them in the lower 48 states. I was there when the conservationists succeeded in reintroducing wolves in Idaho against the warnings of ranchers, who for generations have free ranged their cattle. Their warnings that the wolves would kill cattle fell on deaf ears. Well wolves kill cattle. They kill sheep. They kill deer and Elk and moose too. Then they kill muffy and skippy and mittens. They kill rabbits and, oh lest I forget, they kill other predators when they can. The wolves population is almost out of control. They coyote's is. We are seeing coyotes living in large cities. You know what they hunt their? Cats and dogs. Both game and domestic species are dying. On Cape Cod they opened a coyote den when dogs and cats were disappearing. In just one den they found 38 pet collars that solved several years of missing pets.

And if we cannot articulate an actual use or need for wolves and want to rest on God's plan, God gave us dominion over the animals too. That is was also part of his plan. Sometimes dominion must be the lessor of two evils.

Just sayin
 
Very well articulated. In the end though, humans will have to choose between living in a sustainable fashion and the rationalization for our lives, as you describe them and the various contrasts to animals you point out correctly, will have to support that sustainability.
 
Good post Gscan!
I am also a realist! And I've also been in this fight for a very long time – up close and personal! I know how the animal rights and environmental extremist think – and some are crazy but those running the big extremist groups aren't crazy! Instead they're very intelligent – and manipulative!
It's fine to talk about the balance of nature and if the wolf has a place in the lower 48 – but that's ignoring why the animal rights groups are so pro wolf -- and the root of the problem!
In the case of wolves -- that animal rights agenda is to destroy hunting by limiting hunting opportunities which in turn will limit new people coming into the hunting sports. Right now they're using the wolf but if not the wolf -- it will be something else!
The extremist groups like the HSUS (Humane Society of the United States). PETA, the Fund for Animals, Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and many others are the problem. We've got to target their credibility!
When the barn door is open you're got to close it or the horses will continue to get out! In this case the barn door is the urban tree huggers and the people who support all the extremist groups which hoodwink those urban tree huggers into supporting the agenda – and this includes the legislators who support those extremist groups!
Our growing urban population is so far removed from the realities of nature they're easy pickings for those extremist groups. By trying to educate the urban population we come off as being the bad guys – so what to do?
The extremist groups need to be exposed for their extremism and for their lies. The HSUS -- with their late night TV ads showing those poor abused kittens and puppies and asking for only $19.00 a month to save them -- doesn't use that money to do any hands on animal shelter work! They use the money to write and enact legislation to negatively affect hunting and our human/animal relationship. The HSUS has a yearly budget of approx. 200 million dollars a year and they collect that money based on fraudulent advertising! They're so successful that they are even able to hoodwink intelligent legislators into supporting them!
If you visit the HSUS "Humane Scorecard" web page you'll see exactly which legislators support their legislation efforts. Since most of you won't visit that page – here it is -- it's our Democrat legislators which get an 80% approval rating by the HSUS as opposed to our Republican legislators receiving a 20% approval rating!
Why do the Democrats tend to support the animal rights agenda? It's because Democrats tend to let their emotions trump their intellect. I'm not saying the Democrats aren't intelligent – I'm saying they let their emotions have final say over their opinions.
This is why animal rights groups like the HSUS use the heart wrenching advertising. They're targeting the emotions – because it works!
Either we've got to quit voting for Democrats – which won't happen – or we've got to educate those Democrats we elect! Hence, we've got to let those emotionally inclined elected Democrats know that they're being manipulated by these extremist groups! When you let someone know they're being manipulated, they'll likely respond in either one of two ways! Either they'll dig in their heels and continue to support those extremist groups or get angry at the extremist groups! Those who dig in their heels will eventually get angry at the extremist groups because they'll eventually begin to see that manipulation – and that's when we can start to get rid of those extremist groups like the HSUS and PETA because they'll lose their credibility!
Only then will we be able to actually manage the wolves!
 
Good post Gscan!
I am also a realist! And I've also been in this fight for a very long time – up close and personal! I know how the animal rights and environmental extremist think – and some are crazy but those running the big extremist groups aren't crazy! Instead they're very intelligent – and manipulative!
It's fine to talk about the balance of nature and if the wolf has a place in the lower 48 – but that's ignoring why the animal rights groups are so pro wolf -- and the root of the problem!
In the case of wolves -- that animal rights agenda is to destroy hunting by limiting hunting opportunities which in turn will limit new people coming into the hunting sports. Right now they're using the wolf but if not the wolf -- it will be something else!
The extremist groups like the HSUS (Humane Society of the United States). PETA, the Fund for Animals, Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and many others are the problem. We've got to target their credibility!
When the barn door is open you're got to close it or the horses will continue to get out! In this case the barn door is the urban tree huggers and the people who support all the extremist groups which hoodwink those urban tree huggers into supporting the agenda – and this includes the legislators who support those extremist groups!
Our growing urban population is so far removed from the realities of nature they're easy pickings for those extremist groups. By trying to educate the urban population we come off as being the bad guys – so what to do?
The extremist groups need to be exposed for their extremism and for their lies. The HSUS -- with their late night TV ads showing those poor abused kittens and puppies and asking for only $19.00 a month to save them -- doesn't use that money to do any hands on animal shelter work! They use the money to write and enact legislation to negatively affect hunting and our human/animal relationship. The HSUS has a yearly budget of approx. 200 million dollars a year and they collect that money based on fraudulent advertising! They're so successful that they are even able to hoodwink intelligent legislators into supporting them!
If you visit the HSUS "Humane Scorecard" web page you'll see exactly which legislators support their legislation efforts. Since most of you won't visit that page – here it is -- it's our Democrat legislators which get an 80% approval rating by the HSUS as opposed to our Republican legislators receiving a 20% approval rating!
Why do the Democrats tend to support the animal rights agenda? It's because Democrats tend to let their emotions trump their intellect. I'm not saying the Democrats aren't intelligent – I'm saying they let their emotions have final say over their opinions.
This is why animal rights groups like the HSUS use the heart wrenching advertising. They're targeting the emotions – because it works!
Either we've got to quit voting for Democrats – which won't happen – or we've got to educate those Democrats we elect! Hence, we've got to let those emotionally inclined elected Democrats know that they're being manipulated by these extremist groups! When you let someone know they're being manipulated, they'll likely respond in either one of two ways! Either they'll dig in their heels and continue to support those extremist groups or get angry at the extremist groups! Those who dig in their heels will eventually get angry at the extremist groups because they'll eventually begin to see that manipulation – and that's when we can start to get rid of those extremist groups like the HSUS and PETA because they'll lose their credibility!
Only then will we be able to actually manage the wolves!

You have it 100%. They know fully well these predators left unchecked will decimate all game populations and kill hunting.
Our problem lies in not realizing as a community that zealots will never stop the fight, while we never seem to remain organized and focused. We spend time in chat groups but we just don't seem to be able to prioritize the BIG fight over our individual agendas. Our opponents don't suffer that lack of commitment. While guns are important in our lives, banning guns is their lives. I recall when I owned several archery shops. My shooters could not rally around all being hunters. The compound bow folk were disdained by the traditional shooters who were themselves fractionalized into recurve and long bow shooters and then those who made their bows and those who bought them, and further still to those who knapped flint and those who did not. The bowhunters generally loathed gun hunters. Muzzle loaders resented bow hunters for having early seasons. And on it went. We need to start caring as much for what the other guy cares about as we do about our priorities.
 
Unfortunately the hardcore tree huggers will not care until the wolves start eating their precious pets or a few urban toddlers.:mad:
We have had kids attacked by coyotes already. But just like when illegal aliens kill Americans, those few sacrifices seen as are a justifiable price to pay for the cuase.
 
That stuff is all accurate and great. Doesn't change the fact that they are here now. Short of a government mandate for elimination they are here to stay. Until they create a problem for our countries good supply.

In the mean time hunt them as another hunting opportunity. Remember if there is lots of wolves around then there is lots of game. Can't have lots of wolves without game they will leave before they starve.
 
That stuff is all accurate and great. Doesn't change the fact that they are here now. Short of a government mandate for elimination they are here to stay. Until they create a problem for our countries good supply.

In the mean time hunt them as another hunting opportunity. Remember if there is lots of wolves around then there is lots of game. Can't have lots of wolves without game they will leave before they starve.
 
I think that's true to a point but only to a point. Politics control hunting quotas. Wolves are already hunted but domestic stocks are dying. Yes hunt them but that will never be enough. If by some miracle hunters actually effected wolf populations the rules of politics would reduce quotas and criminalize farmers protecting their property. Hunting will never be a solution to wolves.
 
I stay away and this Gcan shows up. Most of you guys are so far behind the curve of wolves and wolf management, it's comical. mtmuley
 
I stay away and this Gcan shows up. Most of you guys are so far behind the curve of wolves and wolf management, it's comical. mtmuley


It seems several of the posters need to expand their libraries beyond "Little Red Riding Hood".

ClearCreek
 
I think that's true to a point but only to a point. Politics control hunting quotas. Wolves are already hunted but domestic stocks are dying. Yes hunt them but that will never be enough. If by some miracle hunters actually effected wolf populations the rules of politics would reduce quotas and criminalize farmers protecting their property. Hunting will never be a solution to wolves.
What is your suggestion? Something like we just need to take matters in our own hands and shoot them all.

It's this kind of stuff that makes us look stupid and bitter. Not to mention it won't work. Now if your solution is to create a giant sportsman and agriculture lobby that has large sums of money to influence lawmakers. That could be worth listening to.
 

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