Done with 215 Bergers

[L.Sherm]

I simply don't buy the statement a good shot placement will make up for poor bullet performance. Sure the animal will probably die eventually.

 

[Wolf76]

they once used the acronym APE.
Accuracy
Penetration
Expansion
This is the priority of what a bullet needs to do, to achieve optimal results. Remove any letter and expect poor results.
IMO Bergers kill stuff very well if you follow 2 rules: heavy for cartridge bullet weight and make sure the tips aren't clogged.
BUT there are many good bullets on the market, so if one doesn't float your boat, move on.
FWIW..I work in the OR and have an extensive experience and working knowledge of anatomy/physiology. The previous post from the surgeon is correct. My only caveat is that I believe lung shots kill animals faster than heart shots. Having the heart pump blood out of the system causes the drop in BP quicker.

 

[Bravo 4]

Sorry gentlemen, there is no right answer to the whole target/hunting bullet debate. I've witnessed "target bullets" have inconsistent performance and I've seen some that absolutely smashed every single animal they've hit, big to small and near to far. I've also seen more "hunting bullets" have what I would call a failure to perform, all mono bullets. Refused to use them for the past decade, until recently with newer designs and materials.
I've said this several times here and I'll say it again; you cannot classify all of a certain manufacturer's bullets into one category, or even different weights and calibers of the same bullets into one category.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Yeah - interesting thread. I probably commented already, but here's how it shakes out for me:
- It's 90% shot placement, 10% bullet performance, but we talk about the bullet 90% of the time & shooting 10% of the time.
- You can't compare what happens with whitetail and what happens with oryx/gemsbok. Their anatomy, size, and tenacity are very different. Internet zealots who do only one type of hunting might not give the best advice to everyone else.
- You need to match a bullet to the animal & velocity you're using. No bullet is perfect for every situation. A bullet hitting the shoulder of an eland at 3200 FPS (please hold together) is different than a bullet passing between the ribs of a whitetail at 1800 FPS (please expand).
- A person who has killed a couple dozen animals over a lifetime doesn't have enough data to draw ANY conclusions. A person who has seen thousands of animals harvested with a variety of bullets and velocities might start to get a good feel for a few things.
- Not everyone who posts an opinion knows what they're talking about. This includes people in magazines and on TV.
- We need more science and less opinion to learn anything meaningful about something so complex as terminal ballistics.
- Weird stuff happens. Scientifically, it's important to identify and ignore a few outliers in the data. This is hard to do when it happens to you.
- Some people who post anonymously on the Internet are promoting products they sell.
- Pick the bullet that shoots the best in your rifle, learn to shoot it well, keep written notes, and enjoy and share this wonderful way of life called hunting.

You are right on!!! Shot placement is the most important, and matching the bullet to the velocity. It's a life long study. I have been hunting for almost 63 years now. Been hand loading for 58 year now. I am still learning. One thing for sure I look at any animal that I get a change too to see what damage was done to it. I don't have any idea as how many I have looked over the years. I hand load my cartridge and generally use rifles that obtain velocity of about 3200 fps with the rounds I shot from them. I read a very long time ago, that was better to keep your velocity close to the same, because you don't have to rethink your bullet travel. The only rifle that I shot at a higher velocity is my 220 swift, which I use a 55gr bullet @ 3900fps.

 

[dogz]

No worries, the good deal is there's a ton load of good bullets to choose from in your .300. Life's easy, lifes short hunt hard!

 

[sheephunteralaska]

My outfitting businesses that I Guide for will no longer allow any Berger's to be used. Way too many loses

 

[dogz]

Mainly good shooting but bullet issues or people shooting beyond their paygrade?

 

[sheephunteralaska]

One the few places in hunting equipment that high amount of failures people still feel this bullet is a good choice.

If the amount of failures (in the overall success of a hunt from start to finish) we see across the board with Berger's was say a certain pair of boots, pack, tent or some other important piece of equipment, the company would no longer be in business for hunting related gear.

No matter their success on steel or paper.

 

[sheephunteralaska]

Don't get me wrong I think they are great bullets for steel and paper but that is the extent I would even consider using them. I had a client last year that insisted on their use on a coastal brown bear hunt. He wounded his bear from 205yds. Hit was decent just poor bullet performance (338 WM). I then have to go into an alder infested jungle to retrieve his bear alone. One well placed shot from a 416RUM with a 400gr TSX ended his hunt. Client still claims how great Berger's are.

 

[Pdvdh]

My outfitting businesses that I Guide for will no longer allow any Berger's to be used. Way too many losses

Are you guiding hunts solely in Alaska (based off your user name)? Or do you guide outside of Alaska also?

Curious as my testing experiences with Berger bullets were solely on Alaska's large game animals...

 

[sheephunteralaska]

Alaska only for commercial guiding. But most all the Western states for hunting experience.

 

[Jcook02]

Some of you have had lightning strike more than once, that's crazy. My short years of experience is up to 25 years of actually hunting, but I started going with my Dad when I was in kindergarten. I have never had or seen a bullet fail at any time, call me lucky. I have had waterfowl loads fail, darn things don't like to call it quits when they are not shot properly. I have lost deer and one elk, all instances was completely my fault. I didn't put the round or arrow where it needed to be placed. I have shot plenty Core-lokt's, Nosler, Nosler AB, Nosler ABLR, Hornady's and plenty of Berger's. In all of my personal testing on whitetails and elk, I have never lost an animal that wasn't completely my error. Give me a name brand bullet, heavy side for caliber and I won't second guess the bullet, only my input and shooting ability. I have seen Core-Lokt's drop elk beyond 300 yards and I've seen Berger's absolutely bulldoze deer at 10 steps. Match Grade or not, I will shoot the round that shoots the best out of my firearms and match the bullet weight to the game I'm pursuing. Stay well and best of luck.

 

[Pdvdh]

Yup,
Some haven't been so fortunate. Me included. My problematic performance incidents were 100% documented. The animals were recovered following additional bullet hits after the animals were initially hit with bullets that either penciled through, or shrapnelled prematurely with insufficient penetration.

My hunting buddy, and I to a lesser extent, have experienced some severe meat carnage from the Bergers. Lead seasoned burgers - from Berger. I won't voluntarily eat lead shards, so a lot of meat trimmed away and lost.

Whatever... I moved on... Lathe turned copper monolithics. Accurate, reliable expansion, reasonably good BC values, and very minimal bullet-caused meat damage - in comparison, even if the copper monolithics should initially enter into a major muscle (shoulder or ham).

 

[Nomosendero]

Yup,
Some haven't been so fortunate. Me included. My problematic performance incidents were 100% documented. The animals were recovered following additional bullet hits after the animals were initially hit with bullets that either penciled through, or shrapnelled prematurely with insufficient penetration.

My hunting buddy, and I to a lesser extent, have experienced some severe meat carnage from the Bergers. Lead seasoned burgers - from Berger. I won't voluntarily eat lead shards, so a lot of meat trimmed away and lost.

Whatever... I moved on... Lathe turned copper monolithics. Accurate, reliable expansion, reasonably good BC values, and very minimal bullet-caused meat damage - in comparison, even if the copper monolithics should initially enter into a major muscle (shoulder or ham).

I hear you and I don't doubt it. It appears that all Bergers in cal.& weights are not created equal.
I have heard so much good about the 215, as we know one in particular that has killed alot of Elk.
Did you use the 215 specifically ?