Custom actions, are they worth it?

[Lee7588]

A moving target

Yup I said they can move.

 

[koja]

Confidence is a double edge sword. You know how many videos are out there where guys have more money than ability? It's sickening to watch YouTube these days. It's clear that an overwhelming majority of guys with high dollar custom rifles think they are more effective than they are. You don't have to have a custom action to have confidence

Just watch the videos "texas plinking moa challange" 1000 yards , a few highlights stayed with me ; A mosin with a 10x Swfa,front sandbag on ammo box,Savage factory 110 in 6mm arc did well,the ELR,PRS and LPS did not do so well.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I spent several decades shooting factory action rifles with good results, then started the semi - custom route using Savage action's. Since I shoot LH, they were the easiest / cheapest I could find. I've put together over a dozen of them over the years, and have used almost every brand of custom barrel made. The way the barrel is machined is the key to being accurate, the action has very little to do with it.
I also have 4 custom action's - a Shilen DGR, and 3 from ARC - Nucleus, Nucleus 2.0, and an Archimedes. They all shoot great, but so do almost all of the semi-custom Savage action rifle's. Hell, I have a factory Savage 12 FLVSS 223 from the late 1990's that will hang right with almost any rifle. The only thing I've done to it is changed the stock, and put a SSS competition trigger in it. It's one of the most boring gun's I have to shoot.

I'd never waste money on a Remington 700 action. By the time you get it done right, you could buy a custom action.
Are custom action's worth the cost? IMO, Hell yes they are. But, you also need to spend money buying a quality stock, trigger, and barrel for them, as well as load your own ammo for them if you are seeking the best accuracy that you can get from them.

 

[sp6x6]

When went up at O-darkthirty. I got lost,and crashed a few times on the way.We were at top at sunrise, ol eagle eye Dad.Spots buck stand up out of bed, right after anxious son skylines and bust buck out across canyon.Dad gets set to shoot, son says not big enough for father.I think on it Ok , you shoot.He has nice 340 wby, its tough down hill angle 540 yard,1/4 toward, can I use YOUR gun.Yes I think he'd agree, a custom IS worth it

 

[BigDon]

Before our full bag dangerous game hunt in Tanzania, I took my already competent hunter wife to Gunsite for their Hunting Rifle course. It was transformational in her attitude and skill set. Our PH and guides were actually blown away that we could be reliably shoot and hit the target 1 for 1. She was already good. The heightened confidence from all of the practice and inter-class competition took her to an entirely different level. She finished second in the class of 8 in a head to head shoot off through the action course - shooting against 1 FBI sniper, 3 Marine Snipers, and a few competent civilians. Yes - she beat me. I was thrilled.

Note: I knew we'd be shooting 300-500 rounds of high power a day for 5 days straight - a recipe for building a bad shooter - and a certainty to smoke a rifle barrel. I bought 2 Sako 75's - stainless - 1 in 25-06 (mine) and the other in 243 for her. The guys shooting the 300 WinMags, 300 Weatherby Mags, and 7 mm's were black and blue at the end of the course.

Side note - those Sako's are still shooting less than an inch after all that abuse - and a good cleaning!

Or go take one of the field shooting classes out there. Money spent on that will do so much more for your hunting than a custom gun ever could.

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[BigDon]

"Custom" does not always you get custom results.

I have Customs, 700s, Savage, A bolts with Brux, Krieger, Hart, Lilja, Shilen, X Caliber, Pac Nor, Schneider, and Pence barrels, hard to tell the difference in accuracy with platforms being the same stock and scope. Ever seen a Ruger Tang safety and Mark II shoot 3/8" groups(and less) constantly with a custom barrel? Not too difficult to accomplish!

I like to test what the "talking heads" are spouting as being the gospel truth because so much of it is their ego, marketing, or just regurgitating popular BS. At one time, all I had was one type of custom action or another, a best friend had to die and leave me his Parker Hale and Ruger Tang safety with custom barrels to bring me back down to the Truth.

The issue of Pride of ownership is much different from a guy who is trying to achieve super accuracy with a limited budget.

The biggest issue chasing accuracy is learning to "Tune" hand loads for that particular barrel's harmonics. The issue of tuning a load is of major importance relating to chasing 3/8" and less accuracy attaining amazing accuracy with factory rifles at 500-600 yards.

Many new guys think that they can just buy accuracy, and many get disappointed, but they do have a rifle/scope to be proud of.

I have quite a few Remingtons. When the new barrel is installed, I go with a custom recoil lug .250 in thickness. If I feel they are acting up a little, I change the firing pin spring. Bed them in a SOLID stock, I prefer laminate, bed action, free float, top-of-the-line trigger, Muzzle break, and Free float magazine box. Having done this, everyone shoots tiny, tiny groups without exception. When hunting season is over, I will have the bolt handle timed. For some of the 700, the Mag well is opened up to accept a much longer Wyatts mag box, and the 7 STWs all get the 4.000" Wyatts mag box. I have thought of upgrading the firing pin to better lock time, but the chances of an improvement in accuracy is little to none.

Concerning the Remington 700s, there was a run of screws that were too long for the Remington front scope base. If the screw touches the threads on the barrel, that barrel will never shoot extremely well. So, when you install a scope base or rail on a Rem 700, tighten down the screw over the barrel tenon, then remove the screw, and look at the bottom of the screw. if you see indentions or the blueing mashed off the center or edge of the screw, then look down in the screw hole at the barrel tenon, you will see the threads flattened if the scope base/rail screw has dug into the barrel threads.

Regarding truing Rem 700s, I have two 40xs that I have had trued by Greg Tannel, they do not shoot any better than the non-trued 700s, same stocks, the same brand of barrels, same reamers used, and another project to compare.
I would never true another Remington 700 action, I consider it money down a rat hole, buy a top-of-the-line Custom action if you are shooting competition. True every Win model 70, especially the Pre 64.

There is so much Lying & ignorant BS out there, it is just sickening. For me and mine, when a barrel starts shooting 1/2", it is on its way out or adjustments are to be made. 3/4" is unacceptable, something is amuck!

If a guy had the intention of really wanting to reload and shoot tiny groups, he should invest the money to get set up to reload at the rifle range. Changes in primers, bullet choice, neck tension, powder charge, and seating depth are done on the spot, while the barrel is cooling. After a while, you develop an "instinct" of what is needed. I started reloading at the rifle range in 1984 at Registered Benchrest matches and adapted the same for varmint and big game rifles. Folks at the rifle range, are mentored in reloading skills, it is very, very contagious to say the least. You are teaching HOPE to guys that only have the funds for factory rifles, and they can be tuned to an amazing level of accuracy.

I'm surprised at your comments about the 40X action. I have XB repeater in 22-250 - dead stock - that is an amazing shooter for a factory gun - way better than any 700 gun I had. I always thought the 40's were better built than a 700. There was such a difference that I figured the 40's had to be factory trued and blue printed. Do any of you guys know the real story on this?

 

[WeiserBucks]

So why should a hunting rifle be less accurate that a target rifle?

The real answer to this question is that most hunters, on this site included, don't shoot at game very far due to the places they hunt. But alot of folks regularly travel a bit to target shoot. 3 MOA gets it done in the whitetail stand on small private property but is a complete non starter at the LR target range.

 

[VinceMule]

I'm surprised at your comments about the 40X action. I have XB repeater in 22-250 - dead stock - that is an amazing shooter for a factory gun - way better than any 700 gun I had. I always thought the 40's were better built than a 700. There was such a difference that I figured the 40's had to be factory trued and blue printed. Do any of you guys know the real story on this?

When Mike Walker was involved, there were some very, very good actions being put out. 40x BR, and 40x BBR were quite good shooters. They never trued anything on a receiver.

 

[BigDon]

When Mike Walker was involved, there were some very, very good actions being put out. 40x BR, and 40x BBR were quite good shooters. They never trued anything on a receiver.

This rifle was built in 2006 . Was Mike there then?

Thank you for the insight, Vince.

 

[Lee7588]

The real answer to this question is that most hunters, on this site included, don't shoot at game very far due to the places they hunt. But alot of folks regularly travel a bit to target shoot. 3 MOA gets it done in the whitetail stand on small private property but is a complete non starter at the LR target range.

Ironic being a long range hunting forum. To me 3 moa for whitetail is unacceptable. 3 moa at 300 yds is either a miss or a wounded animal

 

[Lee7588]

Ironic being a long range hunting forum. To me 3 moa for whitetail is unacceptable. 3 moa at 300 yds is either a miss or a wounded animal

If what you say is true, that is pretty sad that people are accepting of spend more than time shooting a paper or steel target than taking an ethical shot on an animal. Ethical shot falls into having a gun to shoot those distances accurately

 

[VinceMule]

Big Don, no Mike was not there in 2006. I would not fret, Don. So many of the Rem 40x just shoot incredibly.

Around 1984, there was a big push going from 222 rem to 22 & 6 PPC. I was snatching up those 40x 222 barrels as fast as I could buy them for P. dog rigs for $35-$50 each, 1/2" was a BIG group! The old 40 X in 22/250s I had were amazing shooters with Win 760 and 55g sierras, we shot many thousands of p. dogs, jack rabbits, and chucks with them. I like the old BR and BBR stocks the best, but not the range masters with the high combs.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Ironic being a long range hunting forum. To me 3 moa for whitetail is unacceptable. 3 moa at 300 yds is either a miss or a wounded animal

It's incredibly ironic, you wouldn't believe how many members of this forum I've spoken to that hunt the same small acreage every year where 300 yards isn't possible due to the size of the property or the food plot size laid out in front of their stand/blind. 3 MOA works fine at less than 100 yards. These are the same guys that are very experienced hunters, but never been elk hunting and tell us all what we should be using for elk.

I'm not knocking anyone who has never been elk hunting, but many folks here simply regurgitate information continuously with zero experience or applicable knowledge. "It's good enough for hunting but not for target shooting." Because where and how they hunt, it IS good enough.

 

[Lee7588]

It's incredibly ironic, you wouldn't believe how many members of this forum I've spoken to that hunt the same small acreage every year where 300 yards isn't possible due to the size of the property or the food plot size laid out in front of their stand/blind. 3 MOA works fine at less than 100 yards. These are the same guys that are very experienced hunters, but never been elk hunting and tell us all what we should be using for elk.

I'm not knocking anyone who has never been elk hunting, but many folks here simply regurgitate information continuously with zero experience or applicable knowledge. "It's good enough for hunting but not for target shooting." Because where and how they hunt, it IS good enough.

I agree. I have a buddy who wants to buy a new gun and scope so he can shoot 1000 yds but I don't think he has beyond 200 yds. I see people all time being parrots and repeating something they have heard. Yes 3 moa is ok for 100 yds for some. 3 moa for me means I really screwed up or something is wrong with the gun.