Consistent first round flier

[Samesaw]

I have a Savage model 25 having issues with first round fliers. First shot from every group will hit about the same place. Every shot after the first one goes low right and will group about MOA with shots 2-5 or however many I decide to shoot. I can let the gun set for 15 minutes, shoot another group and it does the same exact thing again. It's a 17 hornet with around 800 rounds down the pipe, it use to shoot 5 shoot groups 3/4 moa consistently. I've cleaned the barrel really good since the issues started, thinking it was just dirty but that didn't help. I've checked the rings, mounts, and stock torque. I bedded the action and that didn't help. My bore scope won't fit in the 17 cal barrel so I can't check it out.
Picture is of two groups shot about 20 minutes apart.
View attachment 268620

I think your grouping problem is barrel harmonics and temperature related. Length and barrel profile with forward stock that touches the barrel will have an effect.

 

[Les in Wyoming]

It sounds like it needs to be glass bedded. That was the issue with a couple of my rifles. Bedding is not just for clearance. It also keeps things from moving where the action meets the stock. You should first make sure the action screws are torqued to factory inch lbs. that could solve it. If not, I would have a gunsmith track your scope to eliminate that possibility (giving it a bump on the stock to resemble recoil. If that isn't the problem, I would have him bed the action. Should cost about $100. Well worth it if you plan to shoot a lot with this rifle.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

Just came from a two day Bench Rest Clinic so this is all still in my head. Can I assume all your cases are matched to weight , all the bullets are matched to weight, and all the rounds have the exact same load , and same primer and the seating depth OGIVE is all as exact as possible, and you are shooting from a stable rest ??? If yes, to all the above then is it possible you are "Pinning the rifle " slightly by applying very slight shoulder pressure the rear butt plate or recoil pad?? This will cause the muzzle to ever so slightly move. Just a thought .

 

[Timnterra]

I think your problem is much more in-depth than a dirty vs clean barrel and "first shot jitters". I have a rifle that does this same thing though it isn't that pronounced. The first shot is always center bullseye and the following shots make a .5moa group that falls about 1moa low and right. It does not matter if the barrel is clean or dirty or if I run a patch with oil through or any of that. The action is bedded stress free and the barrel is floating with lots of room. I think it is because the barrel is button rifled. I've had lots of button rifles barrels and this is the only one that has had this problem. However, I think there may have been some stress induced into the barrel that relaxes once a round has been fired. Then the barrel cools back to ambient temperature and the stress returns. The barrel steel is the issue creating the problem thus it is consistent regardless of the load or ammo.

 

[jessegibson1978]

Just a silly thought. Did you take down the bolt and clean the pin and spring? May have grit in the bolt.

 

[Radman]

I have a Savage model 25 having issues with first round fliers. First shot from every group will hit about the same place. Every shot after the first one goes low right and will group about MOA with shots 2-5 or however many I decide to shoot. I can let the gun set for 15 minutes, shoot another group and it does the same exact thing again. It's a 17 hornet with around 800 rounds down the pipe, it use to shoot 5 shoot groups 3/4 moa consistently. I've cleaned the barrel really good since the issues started, thinking it was just dirty but that didn't help. I've checked the rings, mounts, and stock torque. I bedded the action and that didn't help. My bore scope won't fit in the 17 cal barrel so I can't check it out.
Picture is of two groups shot about 20 minutes apart.
View attachment 268620

I've experienced this with 2 previous rifles, each had a stainless barrel. One was bedded, the other floated. They both shot a perfect "question mark", (their first shots being DCB). I fixed one by doing a better float job. I fixed the other by selling it! They did this everytime I went shooting. IMO Temperature had to have been a factor in my case or it wouldn't have happened repeatedly. A better job of free-floating could also play-in because of thermal expansion.
(NOT bashing SS barrels in any way so please don't start defending them. I like them too!)

 

[Mike Matteson]

I would try a dirty barrel. Some rifle don't like to clean.

Other items that maybe causing problems. Have you floated your barrel?

"Barrel erosion: The lands or a barrel erode, while that is dependent on many factors, the measurement in the article showed an average of 0.004-0.007 of erosion every 100 rounds." So you may need to change your seating depth of your bullet do to barrel erosion. That maybe part of the problem, due the the 800 round down the tube.

 

[shootski]

Thunder17,

Lots of possibly great advice so far in this thread!

I'm going to take TheLongRangers suggestion one step further.
We are all creatures of habit; do you always place your rifle on the same same side when putting it down? If that is always on the right flip it over on the left side while you wait for the bore to cool. Your scope's erector spring(s) may be allowing the internals to sag to one side and then after the first shot the SLAP upside its head makes it return to the correct position. If that simple step will fix the first round "flyer" you need to send that scope back for repairs or buy a better scope.
if that simple step isn't the issue then try the other suggestions but only do one at a time...or you will chase your tail.

Also the Analysis Chart in one of the above posts is actually for Handgun and not rifle; (even ones with distinct pistol grips) when fired one handed.

shootski

 

[jimma123]

Factory ammo and reloads. At first I thought it might be the factory ammo, since after one shot the primer pockets were already loose on some of the brass and others were still tight. So I reloaded some and still getting the same results

Shooter error !!

 

[jimma123]

Factory ammo?

Shooter error.

 

[skipglo]

Is the barrel to clean? Some barrels shoot better dirty.
Different lot of powder, primer, brass?
Set the case aside that throws the flier.

Good morning Sherm! Looking for your input here! From the target I would say there are two flyers in each group with a strange repeatability. First cold shots and the right horizontal tips of the triangle! Also distinct CANT left and right... between the two groups....tells me although OP tightened everything... something is loose...OP...have you tried another scope yet..I would...process of elimination...just me! One more thing....try hitting the elevation turret fairly crisply with your finger three or four times before your first shot... again...process of elimination...will tell you if the guts of the scope have come loose

 

[Carlos88]

I have a Savage model 25 having issues with first round fliers. First shot from every group will hit about the same place. Every shot after the first one goes low right and will group about MOA with shots 2-5 or however many I decide to shoot. I can let the gun set for 15 minutes, shoot another group and it does the same exact thing again. It's a 17 hornet with around 800 rounds down the pipe, it use to shoot 5 shoot groups 3/4 moa consistently. I've cleaned the barrel really good since the issues started, thinking it was just dirty but that didn't help. I've checked the rings, mounts, and stock torque. I bedded the action and that didn't help. My bore scope won't fit in the 17 cal barrel so I can't check it out.
Picture is of two groups shot about 20 minutes apart.
View attachment 268620

Your rifle is two grouping. This is due to several issues:

1. Action is stressed (i.e. not bedded).
2. Loose screws.
3. Barreled action sitting on metal pillars.
4. Front screw of front scope base is contacting the barrel.

Rather than make this look like a diatribe, I'll just list what I do when I get by paws on a new or used rifle:

1. Clean barrel.
2. Bed barreled action and free float a couple of inches forward of the recoil lug. It is bedded tight. It only takes about 15in/lbs of pressure to stress an action so bedding is a must.
3. Install bases then check for screw contacting barrel. That entails removing front bases/screws. If you peer down into the screw hole and see a shiny spot or mashed barrel threads, shorten front screw .010 and check again. Then make sure to loctite all screws. 20in/lbs.
4. Make sure any magazine, mag box assembly or bottom metal is not too proud. If so correct.
5. Tighten action screws to 35-40in/lbs. Use vibra-tite by loctite (medium strength) to secure screws.

In your case, start shooting your preferred loads or shot factory ammo if you like. Keep shooting, do not clean barrel yet. Clean when your groups start to go wonky on you.

May seem ridiculous to take this much time on a rig but doing so has kept me from pulling more hair out of my head than necessary. Hope you find the problem so you can enjoy shooting your rig.

 

[223kid]

Hey, I hope my Savage 25 in .17 Hornet does not become afflicted because I read this post. Got mine(bought it used) last June, topped it with a Bushnell Engage . It is the most awesome shooting gun I have ever owned. No distance too far. I load my own using 20gr. Varmagedons JHP. with 12.7 gr. of CFE BLK. Hornady cases 450cci primers.
I have many Savage rifles, I have been fortunate I guess I have never experienced what Thunder 17 is experiencing. I have shot a model 10 savage in 223 to the point the barrel would have little resistance to the patch being pushed thru. This rifle had over 5000 down the pipe easy. It was still effective .
I have read all these suggestions(in which some I feel are extreme measures to take) and I would do a scope swap and maybe go without cleaning . Just my thoughts

 

[Bdog35]

I have a Savage model 25 having issues with first round fliers. First shot from every group will hit about the same place. Every shot after the first one goes low right and will group about MOA with shots 2-5 or however many I decide to shoot. I can let the gun set for 15 minutes, shoot another group and it does the same exact thing again. It's a 17 hornet with around 800 rounds down the pipe, it use to shoot 5 shoot groups 3/4 moa consistently. I've cleaned the barrel really good since the issues started, thinking it was just dirty but that didn't help. I've checked the rings, mounts, and stock torque. I bedded the action and that didn't help. My bore scope won't fit in the 17 cal barrel so I can't check it out.
Picture is of two groups shot about 20 minutes apart.
View attachment 268620

Check your stock for warpage, maybe time for a new stock with a bedding block.