Bullet Expansion - Hammer Hunter vs HHT

[shinbone]

The solution is easy - just go buy that brand of bullet that has zero failures.

 

[Rick Richard]

The solution is easy - just go buy that brand of bullet that has zero failures.

All out of stock. Lol.

 

[MtPockets]

I know, I know, Im a slacker!

Join the club!!!
Especially this time of year, it can be hard to start new projects.

 

[adam32+P]

All out of stock. Lol.

They are in stock. You just have to install the tips yourself with a hammer and block of wood.

 

[ButterBean]

I've shot at least hundreds of SST, AMAX, VMAX, SMKs, Bergers, ELDM, ELDX, Nosler Ballistic Tips, Sierra BlitzKings, TMKs, GameKings, Barnes varieties, etc. And even in the thousands of a few of those. Others not mentioned are not in the hundreds or more, but I have a fair experience still with many others. I've shot on a lot of rolling hills farm ground and through/over terraces and through lots of grass, brush, etc.
I was born and raised on a farm and had lots of opportunities. I started reloading with my grandpa and dad when I was around 9 and making my own by middle school, unsupervised. The farm life and now military life have been hard on my body too, so I can relate with you there. The military life has caused me to not shoot and hunt as much as I used to, but it hasn't taken away all the past experiences and I still get in my fair share now. I only have a few years to go and I'll be retired (takes longer not being active duty anymore), then I can really get back to business doing just the fun stuff lol.

Anyway, I did say I have had a few issues over the years, but the repeats were most common with the open tip bullets and not so much the tipped ones I used. There's a reason I pretty much only use tipped bullets nowadays. It's not just to help protect the cavity either.

Call BS all you want. I know what I experienced lol.

I also know buffalo horns are not like trees lol. I never said they were. I only brought up that story because it's a time a Hammer specifically hit something substantial before tissue and the final outcome was still good, or so I recall from the story. You can clarify that, and when I made that original comment on it I figured you would, but you seem to have misinterpreted the point I was making on it. My point was not always when Hammers hit something first does it mean it won't still work well. That was an example that popped in my head first. I've seen a lot of guys big on Hammers quick to blame hitting something along the way as if it'll always result in a poor result, but there's an extreme example of a time it didn't seem to matter. I'm sure there are others that have hit things too and probably didn't even know it because the outcome was still good. Can it happen? Absolutely, and it may very well have for the OP, but it's not a given either.

I have not once made comments in this thread in an effort to bash Hammer. I have only stated my opinions based on what I know already. If anything otherwise has been concluded from that, it's from reading too far into it and it's based on false pretenses. I'm just here discussing and making observations.

Steve himself said the new tipped versions help:

So to me, that translates to the HH line is susceptible to being damaged before impact and it can cause results like this. So that would mean nothing I've said so far is a flat out lie, right? It only backs up what I've said, right? Perhaps you just didn't like me saying it? I didn't say something like, "this happens all the time to Hammers because it's a crap design and you shouldn't use them ever". I mentioned how and why it could happen and that I've seen a few other instances now where it's happened, to include experiences of my own even with other bullets.

You have rambled on and said mostly nothing but people need to clear their minds and not jump to conclusions. I agree with that. You also said we learn more from failures and when things don't go so right. I agree there too, and it's why I like to be involved in discussions like this and it's why I'm here. So take my comments as that, because that's all they are. And please don't take offense here. I say you rambled on mostly in jest because you yourself call yourself out on that in many of your posts lol. I just didn't get much more out of this particular response is all, although there was maybe some potential.


Not sure what you're wanting me to answer here. I was hand loading by myself in 1997 and out there in the fields shooting coyotes, raccoons, opossums, rabbits, and lots of targets (could only shoot deer with shotguns and slugs).

Not sure what I need to talk to Mark about either. I'm not here trying to call you out, so I'm not sure what this is about.

Let's move on now, shall we? Focus on bullets and learn more about them and terminal ballistics…. Figure out what there is to figure out with things like in the OP and use that to build on our wisdom and equip us for more success out there. So please, there's no reason to respond to this any further and drag anything out that's not going to help the OP.

Happy Thanksgiving to all celebrating!

 

[fordy]

Gday


Aron I'm not going to quote your post as not enough time in the day to respond with factual information/evidence
I hope you can oneday see the errors in your way/beliefs & regardless of brand


I'll make these points before I head

If Steve has stated the hht will fix this & I mean fix the op projectile from tumbling in the critter & still give good terminal performance he is mistaken & I'll call it BS to his face right now if I could also like anyone who interprets that exact same thing is incorrect on this exact same thing playing out & it won't matter what brand it is to get a pill to work under those scenarios is one that is basically impossible

Move to my 2nd picture & this is different Situation yes the hht will fix it they are 2 totally different situation & pill behaviour
That is what is needed to be understood

If a person fails to understand that after showing that , they have blinkers on or I am once again failing in my poor writing skills
Now if someone goes ok yep I need to readdress & now I see WHY let alone what I'm talking about then it's all cool that person is moving forward on the knowledge of how a pill reacts but you have not seen the wood in the trees to come back with the response you have so you have blinkers on

Tips man alive you are not even scratching the surface on what is occurring & here's another tip buy cutting things up you need to measure the actual consistency of those materials as just cutting is not getting into the depths of the why's & whynots

Buff horn obviously your picking pieces out of what was said or didn't delve deep enough initially or my misunderstanding of your point


Reference to Mark was have a chat to him before you open your mouth and dig your hole deeper I was trying to get you to do research before you opened your mouth


On those numbers I commend you for shooting those numbers of critters through brush or like & those numbers you will have seen deflection especially with some of those brands if not you are the luckiest man alive & be careful quoting numbers as from my experience it gets peoples nickers in a knot lol

I will move forward & discuss with anyone but until someone understands the true basics you can not get into the depths of the how, why

I'm not saying I know everything as far from it & I have no worries in eating crow or saying I'm wrong but the above I've got hard factual evidence that backs up what I'm relaying or trying to relay
To anyone who disagrees that's also cool but please put factual evidence/information up to counter act mine then we can discuss the hows & whys of that part & I'll happily say I'm wrong & learn more in that process as data doesn't lie or I'm going to call BS when it's not
If that offends so be it but not on a personal level with this it's what is relayed that is BS

Got to run cheers

 

[Petey308]

Gday


Aron I'm not going to quote your post as not enough time in the day to respond with factual information/evidence
I hope you can oneday see the errors in your way/beliefs & regardless of brand


I'll make these points before I head

If Steve has stated the hht will fix this & I mean fix the op projectile from tumbling in the critter & still give good terminal performance he is mistaken & I'll call it BS to his face right now if I could also like anyone who interprets that exact same thing is incorrect on this exact same thing playing out & it won't matter what brand it is to get a pill to work under those scenarios is one that is basically impossible

Move to my 2nd picture & this is different Situation yes the hht will fix it they are 2 totally different situation & pill behaviour
That is what is needed to be understood

If a person fails to understand that after showing that , they have blinkers on or I am once again failing in my poor writing skills
Now if someone goes ok yep I need to readdress & now I see WHY let alone what I'm talking about then it's all cool that person is moving forward on the knowledge of how a pill reacts but you have not seen the wood in the trees to come back with the response you have so you have blinkers on

Tips man alive you are not even scratching the surface on what is occurring & here's another tip buy cutting things up you need to measure the actual consistency of those materials as just cutting is not getting into the depths of the why's & whynots

Buff horn obviously your picking pieces out of what was said or didn't delve deep enough initially or my misunderstanding of your point


Reference to Mark was have a chat to him before you open your mouth and dig your hole deeper I was trying to get you to do research before you opened your mouth


On those numbers I commend you for shooting those numbers of critters through brush or like & those numbers you will have seen deflection especially with some of those brands if not you are the luckiest man alive & be careful quoting numbers as from my experience it gets peoples nickers in a knot lol

I will move forward & discuss with anyone but until someone understands the true basics you can not get into the depths of the how, why

I'm not saying I know everything as far from it & I have no worries in eating crow or saying I'm wrong but the above I've got hard factual evidence that backs up what I'm relaying or trying to relay
To anyone who disagrees that's also cool but please put factual evidence/information up to counter act mine then we can discuss the hows & whys of that part & I'll happily say I'm wrong & learn more in that process as data doesn't lie or I'm going to call BS when it's not
If that offends so be it but not on a personal level with this it's what is relayed that is BS

Got to run cheers

 

[ButterBean]

Gday


Aron I'm not going to quote your post as not enough time in the day to respond with factual information/evidence
I hope you can oneday see the errors in your way/beliefs & regardless of brand


I'll make these points before I head

If Steve has stated the hht will fix this & I mean fix the op projectile from tumbling in the critter & still give good terminal performance he is mistaken & I'll call it BS to his face right now if I could also like anyone who interprets that exact same thing is incorrect on this exact same thing playing out & it won't matter what brand it is to get a pill to work under those scenarios is one that is basically impossible

Move to my 2nd picture & this is different Situation yes the hht will fix it they are 2 totally different situation & pill behaviour
That is what is needed to be understood

If a person fails to understand that after showing that , they have blinkers on or I am once again failing in my poor writing skills
Now if someone goes ok yep I need to readdress & now I see WHY let alone what I'm talking about then it's all cool that person is moving forward on the knowledge of how a pill reacts but you have not seen the wood in the trees to come back with the response you have so you have blinkers on

Tips man alive you are not even scratching the surface on what is occurring & here's another tip buy cutting things up you need to measure the actual consistency of those materials as just cutting is not getting into the depths of the why's & whynots

Buff horn obviously your picking pieces out of what was said or didn't delve deep enough initially or my misunderstanding of your point


Reference to Mark was have a chat to him before you open your mouth and dig your hole deeper I was trying to get you to do research before you opened your mouth


On those numbers I commend you for shooting those numbers of critters through brush or like & those numbers you will have seen deflection especially with some of those brands if not you are the luckiest man alive & be careful quoting numbers as from my experience it gets peoples nickers in a knot lol

I will move forward & discuss with anyone but until someone understands the true basics you can not get into the depths of the how, why

I'm not saying I know everything as far from it & I have no worries in eating crow or saying I'm wrong but the above I've got hard factual evidence that backs up what I'm relaying or trying to relay
To anyone who disagrees that's also cool but please put factual evidence/information up to counter act mine then we can discuss the hows & whys of that part & I'll happily say I'm wrong & learn more in that process as data doesn't lie or I'm going to call BS when it's not
If that offends so be it but not on a personal level with this it's what is relayed that is BS

Got to run cheers

He's never gonna change, says in one thread he doesn't post much here anymore and then when a Hammer thread pops up he's neck deep in it saying the same thing over and over.
I am interested in how the new book that he an Nathan Foster are working on is coming along

 

[adam32+P]

He's never gonna change, says in one thread he doesn't post much here anymore and then when a Hammer thread pops up he's neck deep in it saying the same thing over and over.
I am interested in how the new book that he an Nathan Foster are working on is coming along

@ButterBean Happy Thanksgiving!!! I'm deep frying a butterball today in your honor.

 

[ButterBean]

@ButterBean Happy Thanksgiving!!! I'm deep frying a butterball today in your honor.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well, I'm honored

 

[Petey308]

He's never gonna change, says in one thread he doesn't post much here anymore and then when a Hammer thread pops up he's neck deep in it saying the same thing over and over.
I am interested in how the new book that he an Nathan Foster are working on is coming along

And responses like this remind me why. Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving, Lee!

 

[ButterBean]

And responses like this remind me why. Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving, Lee!

I've left it all alone for awhile now but you won't leave it be, a black car is a black car, tinted windows or not, Happy Thanksgiving to you as well and I hope all is well with you and yours

 

[Petey308]

I've left it all alone for awhile now but you won't leave it be, a black car is a black car, tinted windows or not, Happy Thanksgiving to you as well and I hope all is well with you and yours

Leave what be? How have I wronged you? I've made several other posts lately in this forum and having nothing to do with Hammers.

We're doing well, thanks. Hope all is well with you and yours as well.

 

[fordy]

Gday Aron

Ok here's my poor social skills showing
What does that emoji actually mean
Example how bad I am , once I never under stood lol once & my boys use to have great fun pulling the out of me about it which I'm fine with today & we joke about it

so what does the handshake emoji actually mean is it hello or goodbye I guess I'm asking or is it something else your meaning by putting it up

While I was milking I was ticking on a few things & how to approach in a different way

look @ these bullets same company

These 2 on sectioning ( sectioning is a great reference tool but that's it & useless unless you do the full equation) them which once they are measured & overlapped on a computer ( not my work as I'm to dumb on computers ) you get the same pill exactly & this was also confirmed by Winchester Australia on same just so called different packaging


Well no they are not as has been proven on game time & time again & when you delve deeper by testing the makeup with various systems you see why this occurs
All else is exactly the same yet the black box ones we moved to other brands as they just wouldn't kill as good as the ones in the orange box
Today neither are no longer made

So now look @ Barnes same occurred
Nosler portition another & the list goes on
Yes I've sectioned plenty of pills ( not as many as you I'd say ) but I also learnt what needed to be understood is the way ea of those pills behave to understand the big picture yes I've put my foot in my mouth plenty of times as I was once a lot along the same line as your thoughts that are being relayed again & it's why I keep bringing it up on how you relate that hammers have no broaching points to help initiate the shedding as they don't require or need
( Expansion on a shedding mono only occurs in the transition zone )
This you are not understanding the how & why , so you need to delve a lot deeper to understand & bluntly if Steve broaches these pills you watch preformance drop off & that is factual also but on some of his lines it may help but not on the majority especially guys here ( specialist pills I'm talking but I'll not go into those details )


Clear you head Aron & I mean that with respect
Cheers