Blackhorn 209 new black powder

[ATH]

This is great infomation here. I have a couple of questions though. First off I have been using sm. rifle primers in the 209 adapters from Precision Rifle w/777 and wonder if these would ignite the Blackhorn powder. Second, I was going to try the new IMR white hots as I've read good things about it as well. Anyone on here tried this new IMR stuff?

No, you will need to use magnum primers in the 25ACP conversion, and even that may be iffy in cold weather. Some people claim to have gotten it to work, others claimed occasional failures to fire even with the magnum primers.

I shoot more ML than centerfire, out to 500 yds. I am still on 777 and have not tried BH209, though I would try it if I could find any. The price is insane if you shoot any real amount, and it can cause its own problems (very HARD deposits in the breechplug and flame channel).

Some say they can fire dozens of shots without swabbing, others report that this is not the case. Pick who you believe!

All in all, the only real advantages are a modest increase in velocity (only matters at 300+ yds), a reduction in swabbing, and supposedly less cleaning. It takes me all of 5 minutes to clean and oil my Omega, I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[WRG]

Westernpowders Inc. the makers of Blackhorn 209 " DO NOT" recommend using anything other than the 209 ingnition with this powder. It was designed around that ingnition system. My guess is that it needs the heat of a shot gun primer to ingnite it consistantly. You may run into delayed fires if you try use anything else. However, I would be curious to know how it would work myself if you used a LRM primer.

As far as the White Hots I personally haven't tried it as I see no need to. The BH 209 does everything I could ask for. One reason I wouldn't try it is from what I have seen they only make it in pellet form and I am not a big fan of pellets. Pellets create to many voids between the breech plug and the sabot or bullet. You just can't pack pellets tight enough to create the pressure needed for consistant accuracy. I look at it this way and ML barrel is like a shot gun shell as it needs to be packed. That is why wads are used in shot gun rounds so to take up the extra room that the powder doesn't. Not to mention you really are limited when it comes to fine tuning a load. Your pretty much stuck with 50 gr & 30 gr pellets. You could run 2 pellets for 100 gr or 3 for 150 gr or 2/50 gr & 1/30 gr for 130 gr. or 1/50 & 1/30 gr for 80 gr. thats it. I use 110 gr and wouldn't be able to get that using pellets. I have always gotten better accuracy with loose powder no matter what type I was using.

WRG

 

[dumbear]

Thanks for your reply. I agree w/you on the loose powder form as that is what I've always used. I presently use 115gr 777 w/a 260gr 40cal. PR bullet and a sm. rifle primer in my Omega. Very accurate and very dependable in cold weather. Our ML season in ME is the first two weeks in Dec. and it can get VERY cold. Maybe they will eventually make this stuff in loose form but I won't hold my breath. That **** crud ring is what I want to eliminate and if Blackhorn and a std.209 primer is what it takes so be it. It must have a very high flash point.

 

[BH Hunter]

I tried it w/ the 25 ACP adapter and got hangfires. I went back to 209's.

 

[dumbear]

Well I got hold of this stuff and I've only been to the range once but I'm impressed. Shot a 1 1/8" 3 shot group @ 100yds. using 115gr,260 gr PR 40 cal. somthing or other can't remember the name( short term mem. loss).I would like to find a bunch of those tubes that the pellets come in to carry pre measured charges to the range.Could use some shotgun hulls w/cork stoppers I guess. No crud ring, this is heaven sent.

 

[ATH]

Thanks for your reply. I agree w/you on the loose powder form as that is what I've always used. I presently use 115gr 777 w/a 260gr 40cal. PR bullet and a sm. rifle primer in my Omega. Very accurate and very dependable in cold weather. Our ML season in ME is the first two weeks in Dec. and it can get VERY cold. Maybe they will eventually make this stuff in loose form but I won't hold my breath. That **** crud ring is what I want to eliminate and if Blackhorn and a std.209 primer is what it takes so be it. It must have a very high flash point.

You use a 25ACP conversion with 777 and STILL get a crud ring in an Omega?? Granted, I still do have some residue down there, but as long as I work a spit patch down in short strokes I have never gotten the rod stuck on a crud ring with the ACP conversion. With the standard 209 plug and 777, the darn gun was almost un-shootable as I couldn't swab it without getting the jag stuck.

 

[smokepoler]

I tried BH209 with CCI magnum primers in my Omega and Knight Long Range Hunter. Worked perfect with sub 1 inch @ 100 with the Omega but hangfired in the LRH with the plastic primer units. I did try the bare 209 primer adapter kit and saw no difference in the hangfire problem. I compared the breechplugs and there are differences in the end. The Omega has a round, convex, about 3/8 deep hole and the Knight has a quarter inch hole, and a large chamfer. From what I've read, the Knight was designed around Pyrodex and that design breechplug is sufficient for consistent ignition with that, triple seven and pellets. Not so with BH209. Too bad Knight is TU as they need to modify and test a different breechplug designed for the newer powder.

 

[dumbear]

I tried BH209 with CCI magnum primers in my Omega and Knight Long Range Hunter. Worked perfect with sub 1 inch @ 100 with the Omega but hangfired in the LRH with the plastic primer units. I did try the bare 209 primer adapter kit and saw no difference in the hangfire problem. I compared the breechplugs and there are differences in the end. The Omega has a round, convex, about 3/8 deep hole and the Knight has a quarter inch hole, and a large chamfer. From what I've read, the Knight was designed around Pyrodex and that design breechplug is sufficient for consistent ignition with that, triple seven and pellets. Not so with BH209. Too bad Knight is TU as they need to modify and test a different breechplug designed for the newer powder.

I was using the Variflame Primer adaptor w/Fed 205 sm. rifle primers for T7.Got amaising accuracy.I was wondering about a sm. rifle mag. primer.I've only been to the range once so far w/Blackhorn 209 and I used Rem. Premier STS 209 primers. I shot two 1 3/8"groups which is'nt great I know, the lighting wasn"t great that day and maybe I wasn"t either.My Omega will do better. The only way I will try the sm. rifle mag. is in the dead of after my loaded rifle has set outside for a day or two. For this season I will stick w/ the STS primers and maybe try sm. variations in the charge.Here in ME shots are not usualy very long so 1 3/8" will do but kind of frustrating when you know it could be alot better.

 

[smokepoler]

Dumbear, In my Omega, two loads for me that shoot under one inch at 100 yds are: 110 grains of BH209, either a 250 Grain Hornady SST-ML (the highspeed/lowdrag type item#67273), or a 285 grain Barnes SPTF Boattail (item#45154), OR two 50 grain Triple7 pellets and a Triple7 primer with the same sabot/projectile combinations. I stuck with the CCI magnum primers with the BH209 as that is what is recommended. I've tried the Whitehots with the same results as far as accuracy is concerned but couldn't see spending the extra money for a little less soot. Good Luck, Smokepoler

 

[WRG]

Let me just say that powder is not the entire answer to accuracy with a ML. Bullet & sabot are another part of the equation!

Try a boat tail bullet / polimere tipped "250 gr Barnes TMZ" throw away their sabot and get yourself the Harvester "high pressure" crushed rib sabot "Yellow" designed for boat tail bullets. They are $8.00 for a pack of 50.

Also use a spin jag to load the bullet. It will allow the sabot to rifle it's self a create a better seal for proper pressure.

I shoot 110 grains BH 209 and have never looked back! My Prohunter will cut holes all day at 100 yards and hold 2" or less groups at 200 yards.

Make sure you load and clean the same exact way each time and you will tighten up your groups!

Also, forget about using pellets and use loose powder only. You can't pack pellets nearly a tight as loose powder. It's all about pressures! To many voids with pellets plus you have no control over tuning your powder charge with pellets. Think about it!


WRG

 

[smokepoler]

WRG, Roger on your comments. I have used the yellow Harvester sabots in the Knight LRH but not the Omega. I will try them in that gun. I saw no difference with the yellow, crushed rib sabots in the Knight with BH 209 and any of the barnes boattail bullets. Always had good accuracy in the Omega. They,re must be a difference in the ProHunter barrel.

 

[dumbear]

I use the PR rotating bullet seater/jag and their Extream Elite HP.40 cal. 260 gr. boat tail.Love that bullet,I have some of their 195gr. .357 Dead Centers I may try out one of these days. I'm VERY consistant w/bullet seating pressure on the rod as I know the end result of inconsistancy here. I need to find some viles to carry pre metered charges to the range as this stuff is too pricey to be volume mea. in the usual manner.

 

[smokepoler]

Roger that on the powder measuring. I seem to lose a few grains when using my T/C standard powder measure that slides closed. Going to the range next week with the Harvest Muzzleloading 300 gr. to check accuracy at 200-300 yards. Will report back as to the results. Using the Knight LRH w/CCI209M primers.

 

[smokepoler]

Range report: 300 gr Harvesters, 90 to 120 grain increments of 5 grains yielded the best groups with 120 grains BH209, about five inches at 200 yds. Not as good as the TC Omega which groups 2 1/2 at 200 with two T7 pellets and 285 grain Barnes TMZ. Have put approximately 300 rounds of varying bullet/sabot powder/primer combos and am not impressed with the Knight LRH. Just about ready to put it away until after the season closes and stick with the Omega. Hopefully I don't have a "lemon".