Blackhorn 209

[ENCORE]

I can't imagine something better than BH209.

For a substitute, there isn't anything better. However never under estimate what some shooters can do with actual black powder. If..... I were to shoot black powder, it WOULD be Swiss.

 

[ENCORE]

That is very interesting info. So if IOI read you right, the Rems gas cut no matter what you use, just the BH 209 makes it worse. I guess I never shot the Rems I had enough to see the gas cutting before I sold them along.

Sooner or later the nipple will gas cut. What attempts to prolong it, is that Remington made it harder than the original Ultimate breech plug.

When you close the bolt on a case, the bolt should close with resistance. In other words, you know you're sealing the brass case to the nipple. That's in a perfect world, with perfect brass cases and perfect head space.
Its impossible to keep gas from leaking when brass head thickness varies up to .020". Its just not possible.

Just a wacked out example: If you have cases with an average head thickness of .300", what happens when you start a group of cases that the head thickness is only .280"? Gas is going to leak, no way around it.
Ever notice how they tell you only to re-prime the cases "X" number of times??? Why's that?

That mess can be fixed if you want to do it half asked. But.... its so labor intensive you'll drive yourself NUTS!
You can search through 1,000 cases, measuring the head thickness of every one. Once you find the least head thickness piece of brass, you use that as a pilot. Then trim all 1,000 pieces of brass to one identical length, including your pilot piece. Once you've done that to 1,000 pieces of brass, now take an inside primer pocket reamer and set it to the depth of your pilot brass. Then ream the primer pockets of 999 other pieces of brass. Now you have 1,000 pieces of identical brass primer carriers.
NEXT............ After all that labor, now you have to set the barrel back to obtain the proper head space.

I highly recommend to anyone owning either the RUM or UF rifles, get the Arrowhead conversion and be done with it.

 

[Don Titus]

That is very interesting info. So if IOI read you right, the Rems gas cut no matter what you use, just the BH 209 makes it worse. I guess I never shot the Rems I had enough to see the gas cutting before I sold them along

HW, I have shot them all, of the subs BH 209 is far and away the best for many reasons. Now I also shoot a lot of Flint Locks so real BP is the only good choice in them but in the modern inlines BH wins hands down.

First let me just say that I'm personal friends with the man that invented and created that ignition system, Ken Johnston at Ultimate Firearms Inc. Remington purchased the rights to use the ignition system from Ken. I know the rifles well.

I've replaced 4 breech plugs, all from being gas cut nipples and yes they will gas cut. Once they gas cut, you're done until you get a replacement. But then of course, you still have to deal with PP head space and even worse, PP primer carriers. That brass that Remington pawns off can have a head thickness that varies up to .020" and I can assure you, there's no way to properly seal that brass on that nipple with that kind of brass.
Remington tried to harden up the breech plug nipple to help, but they still will end up gas cutting, rather using the recommended propellants, and especially BH209. Its not if, but when. BH209 was never approved by Remington, nor was it listed in the owner's manual.

Without question or hesitation, if you plan on shooting BH209 from your RUM purchase the Arrowhead system. Why on earth would you replace a primitive breech plug with another primitive breech plug and go through the same process over and over? You do know that they say that is the definition of insanity

Dad (R.I.P.) always used to say: "If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money and time to have to do it over?"

The Arrowhead ignition system will give you a lifetime of proper ignition and without any leaking or gas cutting. You can shoot all the BH209 you want to shoot and never worry about gas cutting, or having the ignition system fail on you while on a hunt of a lifetime. THAT my friend, makes the Arrowhead ignition system priceless in itself!
DO IT!

Thanks for sharing your experience, there is nothing like getting real information right from a knowledgeable source...nuff said...Arrowhead here I come!

 

[MallardAddict]

Alliant Black is a far better powder.

care to quantify that statement? I've actually shot both and Alliant black can't hold a candle to BH209 in any category.

1. Bh209 is not only faster but more consistent load to load.
2. Bh209 tends to be more accurate for most serious shooters.
3. BH209 burns cleaner.
4. bh209 is less hydroscopic so it doesn't absorb as much water and lose efficiency over time.
5. Bh209 doesn't corrode a fired barrel nearly as quick as alliant black due to ambient moisture after firing.
6. More rounds before swabbing with bh209
7. Bh209 cleans quickly with standard rifle solvents and your back to shooting so less mess and hassle.

 

[Don Titus]

care to quantify that statement? I've actually shot both and Alliant black can't hold a candle to BH209 in any category.

1. Bh209 is not only faster but more consistent load to load.
2. Bh209 tends to be more accurate for most serious shooters.
3. BH209 burns cleaner.
4. bh209 is less hydroscopic so it doesn't absorb as much water and lose efficiency over time.
5. Bh209 doesn't corrode a fired barrel nearly as quick as alliant black due to ambient moisture after firing.
6. More rounds before swabbing with bh209
7. Bh209 cleans quickly with standard rifle solvents and your back to shooting so less mess and hassle.

Great info...just received my custom breech plug from Arrowhead; have sent it back to them to have it machined since bolt closed easily on the .220 module...

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I randomly selected 85gr (weighed) of the 2009 Blackhorn 209. I fired 3 rounds of 250gr Shockwaves and 3 rounds of 250gr Barnes TMZs. I ran a pre-wet patch of 777 cleaner (which I've had for 12 years) between reloads.
Shooting at 100yds the Shockwaves grouped at .9" and the Barnes at .8". Unbelievable! Velocity was 2,065 ft/sec.

Those pre-wet patches came out BLACK after every round.

 

[7mmag]

So can some tell me what is best for a hunting load for my encore pro hunter.

 

[ENCORE]

So can some tell me what is best for a hunting load for my encore pro hunter.

75grs WEIGHT of BH209 and Barnes TMZ or T-EZ bullets. Just about any Encore platform rifle will shoot that charge and bullet very well.

 

[7mmag]

Thanks will give it a try.

 

[ENCORE]

Thanks will give it a try.

The TMZ bullets may be hard to load and if that's the case, then the T-EZ will load easier. I've shot thousands of both from Encore platform rifles. A real good combination to beyond 200yds for me in the past.

 

[7stw]

If kept properly, it has and indefinite shelf life.

IIRC Western tests their first run every year.

I just heard today, from Western, that they sold out to Hodgdon. Thats what i also called them for, which s to check on shelf life. Sad to here that! BH209 is awesome stuff.

 

[Bully]

I have read where BH 209 when used in the REM 700 Ultimate can cause gas cuts in the breech plug and the primer unit after as few as 25 shots. My Ultimate shoots great with pellets, but I want to use BH 209 and Parker Match Hunters for a trophy elk hunt in 2021 in NM. In your opinion should I invest $155 for an Arrowhead breech plug (custom fit for exact head spacing) or maybe just install a new Remington breech plug ($45) when I detect gas cutting with BH 209?

Yes I have a arrowhead breech plug in my Rem 700 and I replaced the barrel on a old 700 ml, with their breech plug and it works great

 

[7stw]

75grs WEIGHT of BH209 and Barnes TMZ or T-EZ bullets. Just about any Encore platform rifle will shoot that charge and bullet very well.

That bullet is devastating on deer. Very accurate too. The BH209 is a gamechanger. I'll never use pellets again!

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I've been using 85gr (by weight) under the 250gr & 290gr TMZ and have been able to shoot under 3" at 300yds. But ............... doing this consistently has been a challenge.

I'm using an older T/C Encore 209x50 rifle with 209 primers.