Blackhorn 209 new black powder

[CHARLIEDUECE65]

Im using the CVA Accura Muzzle loader with bh209. I tried using the remington sts primer and the fed fusion primers but have had hang fires continually with both. I went from 110 gr to 95 grains and swab the barrel after a couple rounds. I have been using Hornady 45 cal 300gr xtp mag bullets w/harvester sabots they shoot really good between the hang fires. I bought some Winchester w209 primers tonight. Will see how they work tomorrow.

 

[trebark]

Charlie, Blackhorn recommends using CCI209M (magnum) primers to ignite their powder.

As an FYI, I recently tried the IMR White Hots and it shoots great in my CVA.

 

[smokepoler]

I've pretty much given up on Blackhorn in my two Knight LRHs. Too much trouble getting the right load and dealing with hangfires. I shoot an Omega with two pellets, a 285 Barnes boattail and get three inch groups at 200 yds. A friend just picked up a couple jugs of this new blackpowder substitute, BlackMag XP, which guarantees no hangfires. If this works as advertised, I'd suspect many BH209 users will switch. Competition.........it's a good thing. No financial interest in this company so here's the website: Official BlackMag Industries, BlackMag Powder, and Lightning Loads Website

 

[CHARLIEDUECE65]

Just got done testing my new win primers. They work great! I increased the load to 105 grains and im clover leaf'n the target. Perfect conditions outside to test the muzzleloader, its cold and we got snow last night. I was a little worried at first about this powder but its alot cleaner. I think the results on the target are better than any load I had with 777. The bullet combo is alot cheaper to buy too. A box of 50 bullets 17.99 and the sabots 7.99. $26.oo for 5o bullets is a good deal to me!

 

[LeadHead]

Smokepoler, according to Blackhorn's web site they specifically state that muzzleloading primers are not to be used, only 209 shotshell primers. Apparently 209 muzzleloader primers are not as hot so maybe that's why you're experiencing problems.
I recently got my first ML rifle, a CVA Accura, and it liked the first load tried--85gr of BH209 behind a 230gr Hornady XTP in a black Harvester Crush Rib sabot, ignited with a Winchester 209 shotshell primer. After boresighting the gun, it took exactly 2 shots and 2 moves of the rear sight to have it printing 2.5" high dead center at 50 yards. I then shot twice more at 100 yards and one shot was 3" high dead center, the other was about 3 1/2" high and an inch to the right. This was with open sights. Hopefully it'll be wearing a scope within a week or so to see what it can do.

 

[LeadHead]

Charlie, that's how I did it. Bought a box of bullets and the package of sabots. It's quite a bit cheaper to "roll your own" rather than go buy pre-saboted bullets. With 85 gr of BH209 it's about $1 per round fired, cheaper if you can pick up a partial box of bullets from someone who is selling some they can't use like I did. Glad to hear you figured out the primer problem.

 

[smokepoler]

Leadhead, tried all the standard and mag primers, finally settled on the Federal 209s since they are supposed to be the hottest. Am using my Omega with T7 and T7 primers, 3 inch groups at 200 yds. Good enough for deer season. Will get back to the Knight after the season is over. Going to try that new black powder substitute. Since my last post, I did do some experimenting and came up with weighing the loads in two grain increments. Found a lot of variations in accuracy, seemed the lighter loads were the most accurate. Cheers, SP

 

[LeadHead]

Glad to hear you got some of the kinks worked out. Can't really complain about 3" at 200 yards, in my book. The deer won't know the difference, that's for sure.

 

[bowhunthard88]

There is a primer situation with Blackhorn209. That said, there is a solution lol. They recommend a "shotgun" 209 primer, not a "muzzleloader" 209. The CCI 209s and the Winchester 209s are what seems to work well. I settled on the Winchesters, because they are easy for me to get. I had hangfires with some of the other primers, but none with the standard "shotgun" Winchester 209s.

Some of the ES strings on my chrony were 2 fps for 3 shots!!! I do weigh charges on my reloading scale tho. My bullet/sabot combo is the PR 240gr. Dead Center. Shoots about .4-.6" 3-shots @ 100yds.

 

[TomYoung]

I wanted to switch to BH209 for my Knight Disc. Talked with "Sam" at Knight and he says the the breech plug hole on my rifle is too small to reliable ignite the BH209 even with the hotter primers. He said some people are reaming out the hole, but didn't recommend that for me.

 

[smokepoler]

Tom, the problem with opening up the breech plug hole is you get more blowback in to the primer pocket. Opened mine up to .036 (thirty six thousandths of an inch) and had problems getting the bolt open because the primers (Federal 209s) would stick due to burnt powder loading up the primer pocket. Sometimes had to tap the bolt handle with something to get it open.(forget that for hunting). The powder is good in concept/idea but IMHO not practical in the Knight with their breech plug design. Went back to pellets for now. I have an T/C Omega that shoots great with two pellets and a 285 gr. Barnes spitfire so use that for hunting. I bought the Knight LRH and tried probably 200 different combinations of blackhorn and sabots & could not get it to shoot as well as the Omega with pellets. Hope this helps.

 

[TomYoung]

Helps a lot. Thanks, Smokepole. I kinda intuitively knew that for a given chamber pressure, the larger hole would allow more gas and ejecta to flow into the primer/bolt area. You saved me a lot of frustrating time at the range. I'm sold on the benefits of BH, based on articles I've read by Randy Wakeman and Toby Bridges at sites like chuckhawks.com. Thought G.E.G286 wrote an excellent article above…….agrees with all I had read.
Interesting that my fave load for the Knight is the 285 gr. Barnes Spitfire………with 110 gr. T7 FFFg and Winchester ML primers. Very difficult loading with the Barnes sabots. Impossible second shot without thorough cleaning. Just switched to the Harverster ribbed sabots (yellow for boat tail bullets) and am very pleased with results so far. Easy loading and a single, 1.3" group. (There is an interesting article on our home page about the hazards of reaching conclusions from a single three shot group. As I understood it, imagine you fired 100 "numbered" shots…….1 thru 100 … and then randomly picked three shots. Would those three shots be representative of the 100? There is a small risk that the three picked are the three in the center of the group of 100……………or three on the perimeter of the 100………..with vastly different conclusions reached about that load)

 

[smokepoler]

Tom, I can get three consecutive shots with two T7 pellets in my Omega but agree, they are TIGHT. I keep my sabots in my shirt pocket to keep the plastic warm and somewhat pliable. I am going out tomorrow and try the Black Mag XP powder in the Knight with the 285 gr Barnes & T7 primers. Will report the results.

 

[TomYoung]

Looking forward to seeing your results, Smokepoler. Do you have reason to believe that the BM will ignite more reliably than the BH in the Knight? Do you know if the breach plug hole is the same diameter in a Knight LRH as it is in the Disc Extreme? Only get a busy signal at Knight ....apparently they're swamped with calls about recalls on a certain model.

Can't seem to find as much on the web about BM........lots on BH. Is the BM readily available? One article ('08) implied it is in the development phase and may be only regionally available (a Michigan hunter's forum)

Tom