Berger HUNTING Bullets

[HuntFarther]

Here is why I don't care about all the successes that are out there. That is for one reason, It seems that these guys are so biased and stick up for berger that I am sick of it. I have seen the failures.

I have vld seating stems, I have shot my guns single shot only, I have checked for open tips. I weight sorted my powder and brass and even bullets. I keep the best open tip bullets on the stock of my gun and there is no way for them to get damaged. So what would you think the problem would be for me? Say the bull that was shot square in the shoulder and had the bullet run straight up the shoulder blade and out the top. This was at 880 yards on flat ground so rules out any sort of angle, except why didn't the bullet go down instead of up. Theory is arc of the bullet upon arrival.

Also why do I have a beautiful mushroom bullet from a bull elk that was at 200 yards after being shot twice before this, and the bullet went through both shoulders? Just from the way bergers react wouldn't that be a failure? These bullets are doing 3005 fps Velocity or energy would not be a problem in my eyes. So what makes you think this is a problem with my reloading.

Opening morning a bull was shot I believe at 675 with a 7 mag, This bull was shot excellent by a lady. That bull took 5 or 6 to the rib cage this with the 180 hybrids. The bullets opened but he would never go down. Just kept walking.

My bull was 580 yards with the edge first one opened like we would hope and did tremendous damage and the second blew through.

Shot a muley buck running and that bullet did great at 490. He did not go down immediately but not a bullet fault.

Shot a whitetail doe at 919 she did a little hop and ran and ran. Never found her.

Then just tonight I put everything else away and took my 28 nosler and the 175 nosler ablr. Shot a doe just as she what turning the after burners on at 180 yards. Did tremendous damage and she was still able to run 60 yards to the neighbors. So I have no idea what the solution is. This deer was shot tremendous, and made it a ways with zero bullet failure. And a different bullet type. So we will see. I still have tags left and keep trying to make sense of something.

 

[SidecarFlip]

It may give you some piece of mind to work the tips as a lot of competitive shooters do. Berger meplat can be inconsistent and wonky at best. File them flat and hand turn a small drill bit in the tip to cup it a little.

Very observant. Wonky is a good term, to me they look like a partially melted ice cream cone and I uniform all of them chucked in a collet in a lathe and touched with an end mill to remove the 'wonky' part.

John Whidden has a nice pointing die if you don't mind parting with some serious bucks.

No failures here yet but I load Sierra's too.

 

[North Idaho Hunter]

[ame]https://youtu.be/CNcSi7Efb1Y[/ame]

Watch the video starting at 9:50.

This guy is using 215 hybrids, out of a 300 RUM. His first shot looked solid, would you call this good bullet performance out of the first shot?

I am not on the berger bandwagon, i had good luck with the 215 hybrid on elk, but had a bad experience on whitetail this year.

 

[bigngreen]

https://youtu.be/CNcSi7Efb1Y

Watch the video starting at 9:50.

This guy is using 215 hybrids, out of a 300 RUM. His first shot looked solid, would you call this good bullet performance out of the first shot?

I am not on the berger bandwagon, i had good luck with the 215 hybrid on elk, but had a bad experience on whitetail this year.

His first shot was crap, it went over the spine. If you want pics of that exact shot placement on a bull and what was actually hit after skinning I have them, it took me three days to get a bull killed that had the exact same shot placement, there is zippo there that will kill an elk, sometimes may drop them if it catches the top of the spine but they'll get back up.

 

[North Idaho Hunter]

Hopefully my post didnt sound bias, i was just curious to know if this guys first shot is what most shooters "shoot" for in high shoulder shots. I never have been one to aim for the shoulder so i cannot be the judge whether or not this was "good" bullet perfomance.

BTW, i believe the shot was at 680 yards on the video.

 

[dgarrett]

Each to their own... I don't see this discussion going anywhere.. Those who have seen bullet failures are not going to believe anything but their experiences and those who never had one are not going to believe it happened... I have seen enough that I switched to the 208 A-Max's in my 300 win... I have only saw 3 Elk shot with them so not even close to a real test but none took another step after impact... Bloodshot and wound channels were pretty bad...I have seen like many others have mentioned what I consider bullet failure. Use the bullets and gun you are most comfortable using and you will probably have the best luck. There is no such thing as a perfect hunting bullet for all conditions ,animals and ranges. .... Dave

 

[jskmtd]

HuntFarther,
I was wondering if I read it right that you shot a buck running at 490 yards. Unless that buck was wounded, to me that is worse than any bullet failure. I'm all for shooting long range but I don't think the animal should be running or walking. Just my 2 cents.
Jon

 

[WildRose]

If we're going to be consistent in applying this kind of thought would it no be right to also post a similar response to the Accubond or ALR threads going where there saying you need to put it on bone to work, or a TTSX thread saying the same or there is surprise that a bullet even opened because of a behind the shoulder hit. It seems we only apply this to certain bullets, lets apply it across the board.
I've pushed an Accubond beyond the range it opens up nice and hit deer soft and had the bullet only open well by hitting the ground, is that a failure of the bullet, as much as my pride wants to say the bullet failed it did not, I failed the bullet!!

Perhaps you've missed my posts discussing other bullets.

If someone asks about a bullet I've used I will tell them exactly what my experience is, good, bad, or indifferent. As an old friend used to say, "I ain't married to none of'm".

 

[WildRose]

I would love somebody experience on the amax or the accubond lr. My experience on the ablr was not very good so I went back to berger. Now I am just wondering if there is any data available on those. I have heard nothing but great on the amax this year. Especially in the 300 win with the 208's. I am not trying to detrour this thread I will start another one if someone thinks there is enough info out there.

I shot several deer and a couple of good sized hogs with the ALR. They didn't shoot as well for me as I'd like group wise but everything I shot with them was stone dead within ten yards of impact.

Those included one neck shot doe hit just behind the jaw which nearly cut her head off, several heart/lung shots and a large boar hit in the neck.

All exited with satisfactory performance which for me means an exit wound from 1-2" except for the doe but at 7mm STW velocities a hit like that at 300yds which perfectly strikes the spine in that location is going to have the same effect.

I was really disappointed with the inflated BC's though and it left a real sour taste in my mouth.

I'm not a fan of the Amax as a hunting bullet because they are too frangible especially at high velocity. Purely for long range they are OK but I much prefer the Interbond. I've also had similar luck with the SST. Too frangible at under 400yds with massive gaping exit wounds. I like'm dead when they hit the ground but I hate wasted meat and prefer to gut them with a knife rather than a bullet.

 

[WildRose]

I think this is great because people have been bullied into believing that what happened to them didn't actually happen that way. And that they actually failed the bullet. And for whatever reason the berger bullet is the one that is most stood up for. I could not care about all the kills and how someone believes this is bs. But there are valid points here to educate someone interested in berger bullets. But also out of all this will provide information to make a product even better. I agree it should be discussed with all the bullets. But seems berger has had the corner on the market to what a guy needs for long range.

Berger makes bullets that fly very well and they've gone to great lengths to be very responsive to the Long Range Hunting Community.

They also publish consistently the most honest data on their products (BC's SD etc) in the industry or at least very close to it.

When we have had threads in the past discussing performance issues their people have been more than willing to bend over backwards to get to the bottom of the problems and offer solutions.

That earns you a very loyal following.

I prefer other bullets for hunting purposes because of the inconsistencies in terminal performance but it's not because they aren't doing all they can to make a better product every year.

People tend to get way too wrapped up in emotional arguments when talking about their favored gear, that goes for bullets, rifles, scopes, trucks, you name it. We are a passionate bunch as this sport demands dedication way beyond what most people can even understand if you're going to succeed so try to keep that in mind.

 

[WildRose]

Hopefully my post didnt sound bias, i was just curious to know if this guys first shot is what most shooters "shoot" for in high shoulder shots. I never have been one to aim for the shoulder so i cannot be the judge whether or not this was "good" bullet perfomance.

BTW, i believe the shot was at 680 yards on the video.

You always run the risk of exactly the same result taking the high shoulder shot which is one reason I don't.

If you put it through both upper legs and the lungs nothing is going to walk far. If you're a bit low you take out the legs and the heart, a bit high and you sever the spine.

It looks to me like he was a couple of inches above the spine with that first shot giving enough shock to knock him down but not doing enough permanent damage to keep him down.

That animal would have likely survived (barring predators) absent the follow up shots.

That video is a great lesson in why you immediately reload and stay on the target "just in case".

I will generally keep the scope on an animal for at least a full minute after the shot because as much as I hate to admit it, I know I'm not perfect and a whole lot of things can happen between the time I start to pull the trigger and the impact of the bullet.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I will generally keep the scope on an animal for at least a full minute after the shot because as much as I hate to admit it, I know I'm not perfect and a whole lot of things can happen between the time I start to pull the trigger and the impact of the bullet.

I used to not do that but after having several animals drop then then stand back up namely aoudad i learned my lesson. My first sheep looked dead as could be for ~15minutes then stood back up with a full head of steam out of nowhere.

 

[Broz]

https://youtu.be/CNcSi7Efb1Y

Watch the video starting at 9:50.

This guy is using 215 hybrids, out of a 300 RUM. His first shot looked solid, would you call this good bullet performance out of the first shot?

I am not on the berger bandwagon, i had good luck with the 215 hybrid on elk, but had a bad experience on whitetail this year.

I just watched this several times. The first shot was very high on the bull. It hit above the spine in the blade bones where all it did was initially shock the CNS. The second shot was also high, so high it missed completely. Could have been from bad dope or all the excitement in the air. Third shot was center mass but a little far back , at least on the exit. You can clearly see blood coming from the exit.

Would I call this good bullet performance? Yes I would, very good. The fact that the only shot placed anywhere near vital area done the bull in even though it exited too far back shows the bullet covered the shooters but. It entered, expanded and exited far side. The only thing more anyone could ask for in the taking of this elk would be better bullet placement.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

In the last week of reading this thread I have held my thoughts. All I care to offer is that we should all use the bullet we want. We have many great choices. Our choices are defined by the way we hunt, the distances, the caliber we choose and what we personally have in mind of terminal performance. I have said it before and will say it again. There is no perfect bullet for all situations. No hit into a live animal will ever be the same as another. Too many variables. Distance, impact velocity, caliber size, bullet weight, sectional density, angle of the shot, what the bullet went through first etc etc. Some like what controlled bullets do close but not at distance, some like what fragmenting bullets do at distance but not up close. Use what ever you want, but know how it works best and at what impact velocity range. Place it where it works best and use everything you know about how the bullet works to give you the best advantage and the animal the quickest kill.

It seems we are becoming a group that demands first round kills. That is all fine and can happen a large percentage of the time if we do the job of good placement and angle of pass through. But the fact is these animals have a strong will to live and escape. If we do our job well with what ever bullet we choose I firmly believe we will al be successful. But when we don't we need to lay the blame where it truly belongs. The most important part of hunting at any distance is knowing when not to shoot. Only take shots inside our practiced skill set.

In the past week while reading this discussion we have taken another 5 elk. All with Berger bullets and an array of distances and shooter skill. The bullets performed well as expected. One left the immediate area because it was hit low and forward in the brisket. We tracked it to where it bedded following a blood trail out both sides in the snow. The blood loss was huge and it amazed me the elk got up and traveled that far. It was clearly shot placement at fault once we found the elk. I wont blame the bullet or expect it to have magical powers. In all this 2015 season with the management hunt we hosted we have taken well over 50 elk, I have not counted for a while and it could be well over 60. More than probably 80% of these elk were taken with Bergers. 7mm, 30cal and 338. I was there for all but a few of these. I don't doubt some people have problems, and the problems may have been less with a different bullet choice. That's why all bullets are not made the same. So we do have a choice to what we use. But what we know is that any of our choices will kill effectively with good placement. I am sorry that is just my opinion after seeing first hand what goes on in the field with 100's of elk, deer and antelope kills.

Happy Thanksgiving to all, good luck hunting , if we place our shots well I think we will al be just fine. Its hunting, and never a sure thing with all the variables involved.

Jeff