Berger HUNTING Bullets

[Pdvdh]

I see. That would be a problem, and it's something I've never seen in .338 partitions, even up close at high impact velocity. Maybe the jacket was/is thinner on the smaller caliber partitions. Shearing off instead and remaining attached and folding back at the partition. That would certainly explain our different experiences/results.

I'm currently loading Swift A-Frames and Trophy Bonded Bear Claws for close/medium range use on game, and for bear defense loads in 7mm and 308. The forward portion of lead core in those bullets are bonded to the jacket material, preventing the jacket from sheering off/away. I only have a few Trophy Bonded Bear Claws left in .338 and Trophy Bonded Bear Claws are no longer sold as boxed bullets for hand loaders. Which means I'll likely purchase some 275gr Swift A-Frames for bear defense in my .338s.

 

[Pdvdh]

Re: Two .338 Nosler Partitions

I tend to save recovered bullets. I looked and located the two .338 250gr RN Nosler Partitions recovered from the two bull moose I mentioned in prior posts. Both fired from a standard .338 Win Mag.

The taller bullet impacted a 2 1/2 year old bull at 760yds, broadside in the middle of the ribs, back in about 1984. Retained weight = 233.7gr or 93.5%. Largest expanded diameter = 0.745"

The shorter one impacted a 45" bull at ~90yds, frontal shot in the middle of the chest, back in 1976. Retained weight = 190.0gr or 76%. Largest expanded diameter = 0.683"

Here's the pics of these two Partitions.

I've recovered and weighed others with retained weight down in the 55%-65% range.

 

[WildRose]

After 110 replies I have decided. I'm switching to Partitions! lightbulb

Great bullet for punching through hard/dense bodies and bones but they don't really cut the mustard at long range because of the low BC.

 

[lynxpilot]

I'm very inexperienced as a hunter so I have nothing to offer in terms of advice, but I'll share my recent experience and maybe a sort-of conclusion related to the discussion here.

I shot my one and only deer kill, up until this year, about 10 years ago and I don't really count that one because I shot it from about 8 feet away.

This year, I set up my shooting bench on a friend's property the night before opener, so I'd only have to walk his pasture and sit in the bench to be ready.

I have a custom Weatherby 338-378 Magnum (plenty overkill for whitetail) and my pet load was with Nosler 250 gr Accubonds. Immediately after legal time, an older buck comes out and strolls slowly across the pasture and stops 100 yds. in front of me and then stops. Perfect shot opportunity. Scope was set at minimum magnification (about 8.5x) which was still too much for that close distance. I was shaking like a leaf and thought I had a good shot, so I took it. Deer dropped in his tracks and didn't move afterward. Seemed like the classic kill.

When I checked him out, I initially didn't see an entry or exit wound. Had to feel around for quite a while to finally find a mushy spot high on his back and same on the other side.

When we gutted him, we found a pencil in/pencil out near the spine and a channel cut through the spine that took out about 1 1/2" of spinal column (and backstrap). The only blood we ever saw was out of his mouth. How a spinal column shot takes out a lung is beyond me unless it was just the shock wave in his body that disturbed the lungs. No bullet fragments at all. This after plowing through spinal column.

I'm glad I got my deer and I'm especially glad he dropped like a rock and died right away, but I'm completely perplexed as to why a 338 bullet weighing 250 gr shot at a 100 yd target starting at 3150 fps didn't expand in the least after plowing through bone.

My conclusion is that any one of the bullets talked about has good days and bad days. Or maybe better put, good situations and bad situations. Mine was just pure friggin luck.

 

[WildRose]

bng,
Just remembered the first bull moose I shot up here. Fired a 250gr Nosler Partition into the chest - a frontal shot - from a distance of maybe 90yds. The bullet dumped the moose in his tracks. This wasn't a spine shot. Bullet hit center of chest and the moose was never able to get back on his feet. I did shoot him again to finish him. Found the bullet from the first shot. About 55% weight retention. I was impressed. Moose aren't all that tough to kill, but they don't get knocked to the ground commonly with only solid body hits.

The moose at 760yds, that bullet retained more like 90% of its weight, but it hit at a much reduced velocity.

The Partition performance you describe is similar to the .338 Partitions I've recovered. Most of the nose weight is shed, however every .338 bullet I've recovered has retained a large frontal diameter just forward of the partition - normally at least 50% greater than bore diameter. So the .338 bullet would have maybe a 0.6" expanded face left to displace muscle/organs. Were you seeing the .270, .284, and .308 bullets shearing the jacket off forward of the Partition, leaving only a slightly larger than caliber diameter rear core?

That's not an uncommon problem with partitions.

They are made with maximum penetration in mind so if they don't contact dense bone they have a tendency to either not open at all at low velocity or peel back to just a slightly larger than caliber size and go through like a round nose.

That is why I always advise anyone that's shooting them to go for the shoulders.

I've had a buddy use them to kill more deer and elk than you can imagine but even he would admit that limitation.

 

[Pdvdh]

They are made with maximum penetration in mind so if they don't contact dense bone they have a tendency to either not open at all at low velocity or peel back to just a slightly larger than caliber size and go through like a round nose.

Interesting. I've probably shot another dozen animals with the 338 partitions, both 250gr RN and 210gr Spitzers, and been present to observe some others. None farther than 760yds. Caribou, deer, mountain goat, sheep, black bear, and additional moose. Never had any failures to expand based on examination during field dressing & processing. Bullets exit all the game animals smaller than moose. Accuracy was always acceptable for use on large game.

Good to be able to learn from others' experiences. I might shy away from them in the smaller calibers...

 

[mtwarych]

I have hunted with the partitions in the smaller weenie calibers like 223, 243, 257, 270 and 7mm.

Other than a long penetration shot on an elk with a 270win, all of the partitions passed thru the bodies and were not recoverable.

All animals were recovered and none of the shots would be considered long range.

The damage inside the bodies was good enough to do the job and little meat damage was present.

The one recovered .277 150grn partition had fully expanded to the partition and the front lead core had been wiped off. The bullet still did its job.

I was a little worried about a PM I received this morning thinking I was going to get spanked for my last post in this thread. It was not a spanking. Anyway, bigngreen, I was informed that you are a good upstanding forum member. I will apologize for the off center shot I took at you.

I do not shoot Bergers due to many years of being under the understanding that cup and core bullets are always questionable in the end performance. I have seen some of the problems myself and came to the conclusion I didn't want to play roulette with a game animal.

I have also quit shooting partitions and switched to the accubond. The accubonds seam to hit the animals harder. I like that.

If I ever have any doubts about the accubonds, I will go back to the partitions no questions asked.

 

[bigngreen]

I was a little worried about a PM I received this morning thinking I was going to get spanked for my last post in this thread. It was not a spanking. Anyway, bigngreen, I was informed that you are a good upstanding forum member. I will apologize for the off center shot I took at you.

No harm no foul, I think I come of a little aggressive sometimes, the only reason I want to see pics of the lungs is that they are much like ballistics gel in that they give a reasonably clear indication of how the bullet progresses. I don't want pics to hack on anyone with just want to learn and a picture is worth a 1000 words so it works best, and imagine the data from a perfectly hit elk with multiple hits to the lungs, you'd have something to work with!!!!

 

[Timeout]

First of all, I will admit to not having read this in it's entirety. I had read it all some time back and then picked up on it again today. I'm no elk hunter, only have whitetail deer here. Yes, I know whitetails are easy to kill. I used to shoot Nosler Partitions in a 243 and was overall satisfied with them. Nosler Partition bullets I have recovered penetrated well and had decent weight retention. A friend of mine switched to Berger Hunting VLD's last year and this year 3 of us shot them. The internal damage is total devastation. My longest shot was 275 yards on a buck with the bullet entering and exiting both sides of the rib cage and looked like a bomb went off inside. He dropped instantly. We shot 3 bucks and several doe with the Berger Hunting VLD's and I don't know how we could have improved on bullet selection. One rifle was a 7mm Rem Mag using 168 gr. bullets. the other two were 6 Dashers. I was shooting 105 gr. Hunting VLD's at almost 3100 fps. They may not be worthwhile for elk, I certainly would not know. I do know that Berger Bullets are the best factory bullets I have checked when it comes to quality and accuracy. I will use them exclusively.

 

[lee31]

Sorry to hear you've been having problems with Bergers . I have put down quite a few whitetails with them . I've shot three in the last two seasons with my 25-06 traveling at 3250fps. One mature buck at 280 yards . It had a small entrance and never came out it dropped right there when I skinned him there was lots of damage . Shot a doe with it that year at 125 yards though the lungs . Had a huge entrance and exit hole . I also shot one this year at 376 yards dropped her in her tracks small entrance no exit massive damage to her shoulders . I also shot two does with my 264 this year one at 628 yards and one at 663 yards both dropped in there tracks . Both had huge exit holes. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones . I am using 140s at 3280fps with the 264 .

Herr is the exit from the doe I shot at 628 yards

 

[HuntFarther]

I only chimed in because I do know that they do fail and once was a fluke twice and third time. But I cannot know of a hand full of handfuls that have had the same thing happen and it be a fluke. But not sure what I know. I only ran 8,000 centerfire rounds down the tube this year that I can account for.

 

[mikebob]

i have shot bergers since they first came out and never had a problem one. granted 99 percent of the time i hunt yotes. this hunt used 300wm 210vld. here is a yote exit wound 250 yards running, blood trail, and 300wm 210vld

 

[Barrelnut]

i have shot bergers since they first came out and never had a problem one. granted 99 percent of the time i hunt yotes. this hunt used 300wm 210vld. here is a yote exit wound 250 yards running, blood trail, and 300wm 210vld

Good shot! Looks like he was hauling butt when you hit him.

 

[Timeout]

i have shot bergers since they first came out and never had a problem one. granted 99 percent of the time i hunt yotes. this hunt used 300wm 210vld. here is a yote exit wound 250 yards running, blood trail, and 300wm 210vld

Looking over the picture, some questions come to mind. Wearing orange, might one assume you were mainly deer hunting that particular day? A 300 Win Mag would also indicate deer hunting or you are dead serious about your coyote hunting! The other rifle obviously belongs to the photographer. What cal. is it? Thanks!