Too much pepper. Not enough lead. Time to reduce the bear density.
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Bear spray vs Bullets
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Too much pepper. Not enough lead. Time to reduce the bear density.
Very true. It's time to start hunting grizzlys and wolves.
Yep, a double badazz Montanan!
Hopefully, an interview with that question will surface.
It always worries me when my wife hikes/snow shoes in bear country (mostly in east Glacier/Two medicine area) with her all women hiking group friends. My only consolation is that they all carry bear spray and actually practice using them. I had a rare opportunity to hike with them a couple of years ago with another group and one of the members asked why they hardly see any wild game. I simply said because they are loud. They all agreed but I also them keep it up.
I too am curious what FWP is doing about the issues other than warning peeps.
Cheers!
Ed
jmden
Well-Known Member
Happened a couple of days ago apparently:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BLFtYIFja0t/
Grizzly bear attacks Todd Orr in Montana twice and he posts bloody Facebook video warning - CBS News
Here's his facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/todd.orr?hc_ref=SEARCH
https://www.instagram.com/p/BLFtYIFja0t/
Grizzly bear attacks Todd Orr in Montana twice and he posts bloody Facebook video warning - CBS News
Here's his facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/todd.orr?hc_ref=SEARCH
Wedgy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2013
- Messages
- 3,279
Grizzly 10/1/16-
Hello everyone.
Thought I should share yesterday morning's Grizzly incident.
I took an early morning hike in the Madison valley to scout for elk. Knowing that bears are common throughout southwest Montana, I hollered out "hey bear" about every 30 seconds so as to not surprise any bears along the trail.
About three miles in, I stepped out into an open meadow and hollered again. A few more steps and I spotted a sow Grizzly bear with cubs on the trail at the upper end of the meadow. The sow saw me right away and they ran a short distance up the trail. But suddenly she turned and charged straight my way. I yelled a number of times so she knew I was human and would hopefully turn back. No such luck. Within a couple seconds, she was nearly on me. I gave her a full charge of bear spray at about 25 feet. Her momentum carried her right through the orange mist and on me.
I went to my face in the dirt and wrapped my arms around the back of my neck for protection. She was on top of me biting my arms, shoulders and backpack. The force of each bite was like a sledge hammer with teeth. She would stop for a few seconds and then bite again. Over and over. After a couple minutes, but what seemed an eternity, she disappeared.
Stunned, I carefully picked myself up. I was alive and able to walk so I headed back down the trail towards the truck 3 miles below. As I half hiked and jogged down the trail, I glanced at my injuries. I had numerous bleeding puncture wounds on my arms and shoulder but I knew I would survive and thanked god for getting me through this. I hoped the bleeding wasn't too significant. I really didn't want to stop to dress the wounds. I wanted to keep moving and put distance between us.
About five or ten minutes down the trail, I heard a sound and turned to find the Griz bearing down at 30 feet. She either followed me back down the trail or cut through the trees and randomly came out on the trail right behind me. Whatever the case, she was instantly on me again. I couldn't believe this was happening a second time! Why me? I was so lucky the first attack, but now I questioned if I would survive the second.
Again I protected the back of my neck with my arms, and kept tight against the ground to protect my face and eyes. She slammed down on top of me and bit my shoulder and arms again. One bite on my forearm went through to the bone and I heard a crunch. My hand instantly went numb and wrist and fingers were limp and unusable. The sudden pain made me flinch and gasp for breath. The sound triggered a frenzy of bites to my shoulder and upper back. I knew I couldn't move or make a sound again so I huddled motionless. Another couple bites to my head and a gash opened above my ear, nearly scalping me. The blood gushed over my face and into my eyes. I didn't move. I thought this was the end. She would eventually hit an artery in my neck and I would bleed out in the trail... But I knew that moving would trigger more bites so a laid motionless hoping it would end.
She suddenly stopped and just stood on top of me. I will never forgot that brief moment. Dead silence except for the sound of her heavy breathing and sniffing. I could feel and her breath on the back of my neck, just inches away. I could feel her front claws digging into my lower back below my backpack where she stood. I could smell the terrible pungent odor she emitted. For thirty seconds she stood there crushing me. My chest was smashed into the ground and forehead in the dirt. When would the next onslaught of biting began. I didn't move.
And then she was gone.
I tried to peek out without moving but my eyes were full of blood and I couldn't see. I thought that if she came back a third time I would be dead, so I had to do something. Staying in position on the ground, I slowly reached under my chest to grab at the pistol I was unable to get to earlier. I felt I needed something to save my life. The pistol wasn't there. I groped around again but nothing. I wiped the blood from one eye and looked around.
No bear.
The pistol and holster were lying five feet to my left. The bear's ferocious bites and pulling had ripped the straps from the pack and the holster attached to it. Now trashed, that backpack may have helped prevent many more serious bites on my back and spine.
I picked everything up and moved down the trail again. I couldn't believe I had survived two attacks. Double lucky!
Blood was still dripping off my head and both elbows and my shirt was soaked to the waist and into my pants. But a quick assessment told me I could make it another 45 minutes to the truck without losing too much blood.
I continued the jog just wanting to put more distance between that sow and I.
At the trailhead was one other vehicle. I really hoped that person didn't run into the same bear.
I snapped a couple quick photos and a video of my wounds, laid some jackets over the truck seat and headed for town. I stopped a rancher along the way and asked him to make a call to the hospital. When I got into cell service, I made a quick call to my girlfriend to ask how her morning was going, before freaking her out and asking her to bring me a change of clean clothes to the hospital.
Another call to 911 and I gave the operator a quick run down of my injuries and asked her to call the hospital and give them a heads up that I was ten minutes out.
Moments later I was met at the front door by the doctor, nurse and an officer. I had to ask the officer to open the door, put my truck in park, and unbuckle my seat belt. My left arm was useless. He was impressed I had taken the effort to buckle.
Once inside, the x-rays revealed only a chip out of the ulna bone in my forearm. Following was eight hours of stitching to put me back together. Most were arm and shoulder punctures and tears. A 5" gash along the side of my head will leave a nasty scar, but I'm hoping my balding doesn't come on too quickly and leave that one exposed.
And finally, this morning, numerous deep bruises and scrapes are showing up from the bites that didn't quite break the skin. Dark bruising in the shape of claws, line across my lower back and butt where the bear stood on me. Also a few more chest bruises and facial abrasions from being smashed and slammed into the ground.
Not my best day, but I'm alive.
So thankful I'm here to share with all of you.
In a couple weeks I will have to clean out the truck a little better. My girlfriend says it looks like I had gutted an elk in the drivers seat.
Todd Orr. Skyblade Knives.
Hello everyone.
Thought I should share yesterday morning's Grizzly incident.
I took an early morning hike in the Madison valley to scout for elk. Knowing that bears are common throughout southwest Montana, I hollered out "hey bear" about every 30 seconds so as to not surprise any bears along the trail.
About three miles in, I stepped out into an open meadow and hollered again. A few more steps and I spotted a sow Grizzly bear with cubs on the trail at the upper end of the meadow. The sow saw me right away and they ran a short distance up the trail. But suddenly she turned and charged straight my way. I yelled a number of times so she knew I was human and would hopefully turn back. No such luck. Within a couple seconds, she was nearly on me. I gave her a full charge of bear spray at about 25 feet. Her momentum carried her right through the orange mist and on me.
I went to my face in the dirt and wrapped my arms around the back of my neck for protection. She was on top of me biting my arms, shoulders and backpack. The force of each bite was like a sledge hammer with teeth. She would stop for a few seconds and then bite again. Over and over. After a couple minutes, but what seemed an eternity, she disappeared.
Stunned, I carefully picked myself up. I was alive and able to walk so I headed back down the trail towards the truck 3 miles below. As I half hiked and jogged down the trail, I glanced at my injuries. I had numerous bleeding puncture wounds on my arms and shoulder but I knew I would survive and thanked god for getting me through this. I hoped the bleeding wasn't too significant. I really didn't want to stop to dress the wounds. I wanted to keep moving and put distance between us.
About five or ten minutes down the trail, I heard a sound and turned to find the Griz bearing down at 30 feet. She either followed me back down the trail or cut through the trees and randomly came out on the trail right behind me. Whatever the case, she was instantly on me again. I couldn't believe this was happening a second time! Why me? I was so lucky the first attack, but now I questioned if I would survive the second.
Again I protected the back of my neck with my arms, and kept tight against the ground to protect my face and eyes. She slammed down on top of me and bit my shoulder and arms again. One bite on my forearm went through to the bone and I heard a crunch. My hand instantly went numb and wrist and fingers were limp and unusable. The sudden pain made me flinch and gasp for breath. The sound triggered a frenzy of bites to my shoulder and upper back. I knew I couldn't move or make a sound again so I huddled motionless. Another couple bites to my head and a gash opened above my ear, nearly scalping me. The blood gushed over my face and into my eyes. I didn't move. I thought this was the end. She would eventually hit an artery in my neck and I would bleed out in the trail... But I knew that moving would trigger more bites so a laid motionless hoping it would end.
She suddenly stopped and just stood on top of me. I will never forgot that brief moment. Dead silence except for the sound of her heavy breathing and sniffing. I could feel and her breath on the back of my neck, just inches away. I could feel her front claws digging into my lower back below my backpack where she stood. I could smell the terrible pungent odor she emitted. For thirty seconds she stood there crushing me. My chest was smashed into the ground and forehead in the dirt. When would the next onslaught of biting began. I didn't move.
And then she was gone.
I tried to peek out without moving but my eyes were full of blood and I couldn't see. I thought that if she came back a third time I would be dead, so I had to do something. Staying in position on the ground, I slowly reached under my chest to grab at the pistol I was unable to get to earlier. I felt I needed something to save my life. The pistol wasn't there. I groped around again but nothing. I wiped the blood from one eye and looked around.
No bear.
The pistol and holster were lying five feet to my left. The bear's ferocious bites and pulling had ripped the straps from the pack and the holster attached to it. Now trashed, that backpack may have helped prevent many more serious bites on my back and spine.
I picked everything up and moved down the trail again. I couldn't believe I had survived two attacks. Double lucky!
Blood was still dripping off my head and both elbows and my shirt was soaked to the waist and into my pants. But a quick assessment told me I could make it another 45 minutes to the truck without losing too much blood.
I continued the jog just wanting to put more distance between that sow and I.
At the trailhead was one other vehicle. I really hoped that person didn't run into the same bear.
I snapped a couple quick photos and a video of my wounds, laid some jackets over the truck seat and headed for town. I stopped a rancher along the way and asked him to make a call to the hospital. When I got into cell service, I made a quick call to my girlfriend to ask how her morning was going, before freaking her out and asking her to bring me a change of clean clothes to the hospital.
Another call to 911 and I gave the operator a quick run down of my injuries and asked her to call the hospital and give them a heads up that I was ten minutes out.
Moments later I was met at the front door by the doctor, nurse and an officer. I had to ask the officer to open the door, put my truck in park, and unbuckle my seat belt. My left arm was useless. He was impressed I had taken the effort to buckle.
Once inside, the x-rays revealed only a chip out of the ulna bone in my forearm. Following was eight hours of stitching to put me back together. Most were arm and shoulder punctures and tears. A 5" gash along the side of my head will leave a nasty scar, but I'm hoping my balding doesn't come on too quickly and leave that one exposed.
And finally, this morning, numerous deep bruises and scrapes are showing up from the bites that didn't quite break the skin. Dark bruising in the shape of claws, line across my lower back and butt where the bear stood on me. Also a few more chest bruises and facial abrasions from being smashed and slammed into the ground.
Not my best day, but I'm alive.
So thankful I'm here to share with all of you.
In a couple weeks I will have to clean out the truck a little better. My girlfriend says it looks like I had gutted an elk in the drivers seat.
Todd Orr. Skyblade Knives.
Browning300
Well-Known Member
WOW what a story!!
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Based on this recent Montana bear spray failure story, a bullet or two into this sow during the first mauling may have spared the man the second mauling. Advantage - bullet.
From the victim's description, this sow came so fast she blew right thru the bear spray from 25 feet on in, unimpeded. Sow protecting cub attacks are often very fast and hurried. The sow is worked up into a tither. The faster it eliminates the threat, the sooner she feels better about life.
The local Alaskan man who suffered a severe brown bear mauling 20 years ago here on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula saved his life and ended the mauling while his face was being crunched, still in the brown bear's jaws. He emptied the last four rounds from his double action revolver, a S&W 44 Mag, into the underside of the boar as fast as he could pull the trigger. He aimed by feel, muzzle jammed into underside fur. The bear ceased its attack as soon as the revolver was emptied. It then released the man's head from its jaws, and ambled away at a fast walk. I think I described this mauling earlier in this Thread as the man told it to me. Which raises another bear spray versus bullets consideration... how would you spray a bear in the face with bear spray when your face is in his mouth? Another advantage to the bullets.
This was a large boar brown bear - completely overpowering. Large boars are so immense, overpowering, and confident that sometimes they seem to be in no big hurry, after they've pinned the victim to the ground. Consider the Timothy Treadwell mauling. That boar began feeding on Treadwell while he was still alive. He dominated Treadwell like a house cat on a mouse. There's an audio on YouTube of some of the actual Treadwell mauling, about 2 minutes out of the 6 recorded minutes. Put's you so close to the mauling it's unnerving.
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Browning300
Well-Known Member
Good question and my biggest beef with spray you have ONE try if it doesn't work your DONE.. with a hand gun you get six chances, even if all six are from underneath.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Maybe at some point you just finish yourself off. Going out sounding like a Fox Pro on full blast is about as unappealing as it gets.
jmden
Well-Known Member
Guess I wouldn't make a very good reporter...sure didn't scoop this story for you guys. Shoulda checked the thread first. I guess the 'instant notification by email' isn't working that instantly...hadn't seen anything about this thread for a couple of days, so figured this was new news.
Combined with the recent bear spray fail in the double mauling in AK and many other stories from up in AK from guys who live in high density griz/brown bear areas and anecdotal evidence otherwise, I am left more than ever wondering about bear spray. 'Statistics', so-called, indicated you are better off with bear spray. But I think those 'statistics' pack alot more variables in them than the researches have uncovered or care to uncover. I pack both a large bore pistol and bear spray in bear country, but I think I'd be going for the big bore pistol at my side first.
So here's a question, unless someone else has already asked it and I'm late to the conversation (again): Given that this bear apparently started charging at 80 yds, at what point do you start shooting to kill? At what yardage, if you do kill/maim said bear with bullets, are you thrown in jail because some 'well-meaning' people/judge says the bear was bluff charging and you shouldn't have shot so soon? See what I'm getting at?
Are there not folks in legal proceedings right now or very recently, for what, to most of us, appears to be legitimate self-defense against a griz? Gonna be harder to make a case for that in much of this ridiculous, detached from reality, political correctness culture when you kill a bear 25 yards from you, even if it has been charging you from 80 yds. Might have a better chance to plead self-defense if the evidence shows the bear was only 10 yds away. Follow? Guess it's better to be alive and face that potential legal issue than be dinner, etc...
This guy, did everything 'right' (except for packing a gun at all...oh, and he's a hunter, so two strikes against him)...right down the line of what our bloated cradle to grave government would want him to do. And, he is fortunate to be alive.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Here locally a sheep herder shot a bear after it came around the corner of his wagon, it was in the door and he was inside, the bear was waiting for him to come out and had been hanging around. FWP clearly called it a self defense situation but a couple groups caught wind of it and sued FWP, FWP settled out of court for a pile of money and naturally these groups get court costs win or loose because it's a listed animal.
Guys around here are about to snap, as the crow flies this latest guy was only 25-30 miles from me, bear density is retarded there as well, every year a number of guys get rolled there and if you spend time in fall there you will have a grizzly encounter.
It's the same area 28 years ago I saw my first grizzlies while riding fence, first time I was allowed to go to cow camp! Now you could not pay me to hunt that area on horse or foot, it's lousy with grizzlies. This year there were four grizz in an area that has no history of having grizzlies.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I personally would trust "MY" fate to a judge and a lawyer instead of a bear. so I would protect my self even if the law didn't want me to.
As to when you start shooting? As soon as you can get the sights on the bear and you change his mind or kill him. (You don't know what he is thinking, or if it is just a false charge, until it is to late).
after all, you do have the right to defend your self even if the law doesn't allow you to.
Also maybe one hit will change his mind and he will call off the attack.
Just My opinion
J E CUSTOM
