45 ACP on Brown Bear.????

[KyCarl]

J.M. is OK but Doug Koenig is far beyond him!

 

[scpaul]

Isn't Koenig the guy that keeps winning the real scenarios like clearing a house?

 

[akmtnhnt]

Early on in this thread I believe I addressed "energy levels" so not going to retype everything.

Anyone who starts quoting velocity, bullet weights, and energy numbers, without looking at penetration is missing the most important part of the equation.

Further, looking at mild hp ammo as a data point is a mute point.

The acp can be loaded to near 45 Super levels. The 45 Super is nipping the heels of the Rowland. In factory ammo the 10mm hard cast is a good choice, but has recieved negative comments out of factory Glock barrels.

Bottom line to me is someone can make a 45acp with the correct ammo choice a viable defensive tool.

If you're willing to learn a bit, and make the needed mods, you can make a 45acp into a 45 Super shooting ammo that exceeds the 10mm.

It's good to share this info so more people can be better armed with both knowledge and proper sidearms..

You can load the 10mm pretty hot as well. When it comes to penetration, bullet construction is as important if not more so than anything else. A solid copper 22LR will get deeper than a 45 with super wide hollow points, or a frangible.
I load the leighigh 165gr xtreme defense in my 44 mag. At 2000fps, they'll go through a bear.
I'm of the opinion that energy is irrelevant. Shot placement on the CNS is all that matters in this scenario, if not a CNS hit, you at least need a heart or lungs.

 

[akmtnhnt]

It's been a while, but…..I'm pretty sure they talk about the load used in the video! You can really appreciate Jerry's skill set when you watch the video! memtb

 

[memtb]

Isn't Koenig the guy that keeps winning the real scenarios like clearing a house?

Koenig is extremely good…..but if I'm correct, in competition you have to meet a "power factor" rating, which is "spitballs" as compared to full-house 500 S&W loads! Also, for an ole timer…..JM is still prett6 darn competitive in the 3-gun competition! memtb

 

[scpaul]

I agree especially about spitballs. I've got one of the earlier 460s. I've recoiled 3 front sights off, they are held by spring pressure and it had to go back to be repaired. Tech called me and asked "What in the hell do you shoot in this thing". I told him not too bad, just a little warm. I put a very small bead of gorilla glue around the front sight and no problems. I think they are attaching them differently. By they way, if the muzzle brake screw loosens it will fire the brake too. There's a guy in AK. That hard casts up to 750 gr. ?? lead bullets for the 500. With a 4" they are a real handful. I'd love to see J.M. fire 5 of those. Recoil ended with my arms over my head. "Loads of fun!!!!!"

 

[memtb]

I agree especially about spitballs. I've got one of the earlier 460s. I've recoiled 3 front sights off, they are held by spring pressure and it had to go back to be repaired. Tech called me and asked "What in the hell do you shoot in this thing". I told him not too bad, just a little warm. I put a very small bead of gorilla glue around the front sight and no problems. I think they are attaching them differently. By they way, if the muzzle brake screw loosens it will fire the brake too. There's a guy in AK. That hard casts up to 750 gr. ?? lead bullets for the 500. With a 4" they are a real handful. I'd love to see J.M. fire 5 of those. Recoil ended with my arms over my head. "Loads of fun!!!!!"

There are limits …..even for JM! I suspect that 700's pushed hard ……May have some "snap" to them!
I've got two loads/bullets for my 460….300 grainers @ around 1100 for a plinking load, and 400 grainers @ around 1600 for my hunting load! memtb

 

[3chester]

Cor-Bon used to load up their 460 S&W Mag with 200 grain Barnes @ 2,300 fps and 2,350 ft lbs energy. It was stuff that workD. Gander Mtn used to take ammo that was a couple years old, off the shelves, put it in shopping cart, markD down to 1/2 regular price. It was as cheap as reloads.

 

[memtb]

Cor-Bon used to load up their 460 S&W Mag with 200 grain Barnes @ 2,300 fps and 2,300 ft lbs energy. It was stuff that workD. Gander Mtn used to take ammo that was a couple years old, off the shelves, put it in shopping cart, markD down to 1/2 regular price. It was as cheap as reloads.

That's some fast stepp'n loads! Even with a Barnes mono, I don't think that I'd want to go lighter than 300 grains in a ,45 for hunting purposes…..well, at least larger big game! memtb

 

[scpaul]

I couldn't find d what I wanted I bought some 50 cal. black powder Sabot rounds. I was told that they were for the wrong impact velosity. My 50 cal
Black powder claimed to shoot at close to 2k fps which is real close to the 460. When you take the sabot off you have a 45 cal. projectile. Later on you could buy the kits where you assembled the sabot and bullet. I loaded some for a guy at thethe gun shop that had the longer barreled 460 from the custom shop. He shot a deer at about 100 yards and he said it was "a bang flop" to quote him. He did say to avoid the shoulder paddle.

 

[3chester]

That's some fast stepp'n loads! Even with a Barnes mono, I don't think that I'd want to go lighter than 300 grains in a ,45 for hunting purposes…..well, at least larger big game! memtb

Barnes on those .451 cal XPB's, they got 200gr, 225gr, 250gr, 275gr they all got that hollow point, so who knows, why no 300gr. in that type bullet. They like to sell that X number of FPS logic,can see the merits.

 

[scpaul]

You have to remember that the X frame was new, the 460 had just come out. Nosler has 2 types of ammo, I'm not even sure Buffalo Bullets were making the ammo yet.The 2k was from a 26 in 50 cal. mag. blackpowder rifle. That was fairly new too, you could load 3 50 gr.(?) Pellets behind a 250gr. sabot round. I could be off some that has been a long time ago. The 45 high speed black powder rifles weren't out yet I don't think. When you touched either one off you knew that you had your hands full. GOOD TIMES, young and dummmmmm.

 

[memtb]

Barnes on those .451 cal XPB's, they got 200gr, 225gr, 250gr, 275gr they all got that hollow point, so who knows, why no 300gr. in that type bullet. They like to sell that X number of FPS logic,can see the merits.

While I use "only" Barnes in my hunting rifle…..I'm pretty "retro" in my handgun, using cast only! memtb

 

[scpaul]

3chester, the 300 gr. bullets were the new ones with the red plastic tips and you had to watch because they made a very similar bullet for tubular mags. those had alot softer tip. These could have been a problem if someone had reloaded them into a tube mag.45-70.